Engineer Carlos Slim Helú offered a press conference in which he presented the business history of Grupo Carso, its investment projects, the regulatory condition of Telmex and Telcel, its position regarding the national and international economic situation, which ended with a question and answer session.
Mexico City, February 11, 2025.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú held a press conference in which he presented the business history of Grupo Carso, his investment projects, the regulatory status of Telmex and Telcel, and his position about the national and international economic situation; ending with a Q&A session.
Mexico City, February 10, 2025
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: There are several topics that I want to discuss, and I would like to do it quickly, but it may take us a little while. It is a bit about the history of the Group, how it was formed and its current situation. Then, a plan we have in Foundation. There are several foundations we have worked intensively on different fields; but now, we are going to do it in depth. And then comment on what we think about the future of Mexico, what expectations there are, and what happened from years ago to date.
I’ll start with the Carso Group, telling you that on January 31, 1955, I made the first balance sheet of the Group and I’m going to give it to you in Dollars (US$) because Pesos (MX$) with zeros get very complicated. The investment we made on 1955 was $529.85 Dollars. On 1956, it was US$1,240.95. And by December 1964, it was US$373,895 in investments, buying securities, etc. And it is on 1965 when the Group began its development.
We entered a business called Jarritos del Sur Bottling Company, which was located in Morelos, Guerrero, Mexico City, Hidalgo, and the State of Mexico. That was a very interesting company that we developed; but then, there was a rebranding problem: they changed it to Charritos and sales plummeted.
On 1965, we also founded Inbursa, where we are today, with one million Pesos, which was US$80,000; by the way on November this year we will celebrate our 60th Anniversary. Inbursa began as a brokerage firm, always very solid, as it never participated in any of the crises there were, including the banking crisis of 1995, when we already had the bank. On 1984, we acquired Aseguradora México, Seguros de México, and became a financial group. Evidently, this has been one of the most important things about the Group, which, based on time, investment, care, and efficient operation, today ranks among the five top banks and, in terms of results, it probably was the third one last year.
On 1966, Inmuebles Carso was formed, which is now called Control Empresarial, the Carso construction company, and there are other intermediate companies, which I have named as such because apart from the affection we have for them, they were very important in the development of the Group. One of them is Galas de Mexico, which we acquired on 1976 in very difficult conditions, but it continues being part of us and of our partner. The company survived, after 76 days of strike and problems with the supply, and got ahead making labels for cigarettes and beers, gift wrapping paper and also calendars, which unfortunately are no longer made. This company still operates very efficiently. We had 12,000 clients at that time and a single client, La Moderna Cigarette Company, accounted for 26% of the sales of Galas de Mexico. This company sold cigarette brands such as Raleigh, Fiesta, etc., and many others.
But the company was merged and stopped being our client. And that is how we acquired the competitor, Cigatam on 1981, the year before the great financial catastrophe we had and this company shared 25% of the market. Our partner was Philip Morris, which owned the brand. The cigarette company was very important to the development of the Group, because we were able to build it. The leading brand was Marlboro and we had a market share of 50%. We learned a lot here, because it was a cash-based company and did not have to invest much in the cigarettes production equipment, so it had a very good cash flow. These two companies were very important at that time. Inbursa was already a very important company as well, it had grown very nicely and had very good cash flows. The Frisco Group was purchased on 1986.
Today, we have 359,000 employees who make up the great team of the company. We are present in 49 countries, for example, the bank is in Mexico and Brazil; however, America Móvil is in 24 countries. FCC companies are in many other places. Anyway, later when I finish, I hope it won’t take long, you can ask me any questions you want. I was telling you that the 80’s were very important for the Group, because the nationalization of the banking system took place in September 1982. At that time, foreign companies did not want to have companies in Mexico because it impacted their value there, and companies here did not want to invest, and we started acquiring companies very intensively. We bought 33 % of Anderson Clayton, which managed the Hersheys brand, the Centenario Rubber Company which is Firestone, and Loreto and Peña Pobre.
Regarding the company La Moderna, which had been integrated in 1980, by 1982 or 1983, and which was valued in US$5 M, but it actually should have been worth about US$400 M. This is just to give you an example of how things were valued and what they were really worth. For example, we bought the majority of Loreto and Peña Pobre for US$1.5 M, Hulera El Centenario, Reynolds Aluminio for US$600, 000. The truth is that these conditions were impressive and, not going too far back, at that time, Telmex was worth US$172 M, around 1982-83, and then it went up. In 1984, when the bank nationalization took place, the government promised that all assets owned by the banks, that were not strictly banking, would be privatized and that is where the privatization of company packages comes from. We bought the second block of Bancomer. It was difficult, because at that time there was no credit, but we had very good cash flows in companies in general, and that is why we bought it for US$58,100 M. And that block included the Insurance Company and that was the Group integration. We sold Química Pennwalt to Grupo del Valle and a large group was formed with Nacobre and Minera Frisco on 1986.
Things were improving, the markets gained more value and in 1989, the debt crisis ended. From 1982 onwards, the interest rate was raised above 20% in the United States, therefore almost all countries that had debt like Mexico, did not have the capacity to finance themselves. It was a period of six difficult years. The Washington Consensus emerged, and in 1989 it was already structured and the companies were refinanced in a significant way. In 1989 that line was opened and the government proposed some privatizations. like that of Telmex.
Privatization of Telmex
The privatization of Telmex was highly debated among many groups in order to acquire it. At the end of the day, two groups were formed: one was Acciones y Valores associated with Telefónicas de España and GT. The other group, in which we participated, was formed in alliance with France Telecom and Southwestern Bell, which later became SBC and then AT&T. These two associations made it to the end, but a third one was attached there, a patch that goes around bragging that he won. They are quite deceitful, undesirable people who said that they had won, but that they gave it to us, and he went to say this at universities in the United States. This friend not only made a small offer, but he made it half as much.
At that time, the markets were improving, and Telmex decided to privatize not 100% of the company, which was not owned by the government, but only 20.4%. What was sold in that privatization was 20.4% of Telmex and the majority should be Mexican. In that 20.4%, France participated with 5%, the United States 5%, which was Southwestern Bell; and in our case it was a group of partners who invested 5.2%, and we invested 5.2% or 5.4% or 5.5%, which completed 20.4%, and among the private companies, to enter into the bid.
I’m going back, before the bid. The history of Telmex is worth to be known, it’s very interesting. Telecommunications in Mexico began in 1876. It was interesting, because the first thing done was installing six lines that went from the command post to the police offices, that’s how it started. I don’t remember what year it was. I heard there is a very interesting conversation, I hope it was true, it was a very interesting telephone conversation between Porfirio Díaz and the most important businessman and scientist that I think there was in the 20th century: Tomás Alva Edson, it was a very cordial conversation, but strange, because talking to a person of that magnitude was something very special, and it was in 1907.
Telecommunications were historically private and foreign. When I was a child, there were only two telephone companies, one was called Mexicana and the other was Ericsson. So, to talk on the phone, you had to talk from Mexicana to Mexicana and Ericsson to Ericsson, and they had to have two phones to communicate. That lasted a long time, I think it was until 1940, after an agreement was made for them to have a single connection, and a single network was used so that they could communicate throughout the world through either network.
In 1958, two important Mexican businessmen negotiated with Ericsson and the other company, Carlos Trouyet and Eloy Vallina, the Mexicanization of the company that had been private and Mexican for 15 years. The government, in one way or another, had acquired 48% of Telmex and held it in preferred shares; while private individuals held the rest. Many of you will remember that to have a telephone you had to buy Telmex shares or bonds, and something that is sad is that when it was in the hands of private partners from 1958 to 1972, they invested US$65 M a year, which was nothing.
Then, the government came in from 1972 to 1989, and made investments of US$330 M a year. So, there were delays, there was no modernity and it was a problem. When we entered as partners, we won the bid. But I go further back. When the government had 48% of Telmex, it made an agreement with the private sector and bought 3% of the market. So, the government kept 51%, and the 49% remained in the hands of the private sector. The private sector kept 49%, which was all of us who had telephones and who should have bought shares and, of course, they were on the Stock Exchange, where there were investors, and many of them were in the United States, so that 49% was completely Mexican.
That’s when the government decided to privatize 20.4% of the 51% it owned. When it made that decision, the company was worth US$270 M, then US$300M, then US$400 M. In 1986 it was worth US$173 M, in 1987, US$630 M, and in 1988 it was worth US$1,152 M. In 1989, when it announced the privatization, it rose to US$3.73 B. And in 1990, when the privatization was carried out and the privatization bid was held, it was worth US$7.274 B. And the bid we won was US$8,615 M, that is the value of 100%, but as I have told you, 20.4% was purchased.
I don’t know if it’s clear, that is, the government had 51%, which was raised to 56 or 58. The private companies had 49, but since they had already bought, they had about 45% and they issued limited voting shares, and the strong voting shares are the AA type, which are the ones that are sold. So, the government had about 56 or 58%, it sold 4.4% to the Union at the same price and the three groups bought 20.4%, plus many Mexican investors who paid US$8,615.7 M when the share was worth US$7,387.8 M in the market. I don’t know if you’re interested in the figure, but I hope that whoever is interested takes note. So that’s how the company was created, it gave a lot of prestige to the market and to Mexico, because it was the first time that these placements appeared and the stock went up, so the government made two placements of the shares it had left, that is, it had 58 or 56 - 4 52-20, four 32 or that is, 32, of those 32 it made two placements.
Well, that is the history of Telmex. The partners were very good, the truth is that although they said that I had kept it, I had 3.8% of Telmex. The percentage that we had as a company was 5.2 and the partners had 5.5, etc. And the truth is, I will brag to you, when we joined, they said that we were not going to do it, they began to criticize us. We had good communication with the Union, and in the first year, instead of the average US$300 M they invested, we invested US$1,640 M; the following year US$2,000 M, then US$1,966 M, then US$1,351 M, then US$2,281 M, and then US$1.69 M, that is, in four years we practically invested eight billion Dollars.
So Telmex, was totally transformed, you know that there were 2’200,000 lines to be installed. We made an intensive three-year plan. Obviously, we lowered the price for suppliers, in some cases by a third, in other cases by 16%. The staff also helped a lot, and those who were assigned to a function that no longer existed, were placed with training into a new or important one, so we did job relocation and with good salaries, which were compacted upwards, not downwards, so it worked very well.
We had many good years at Telmex, although there was a delicate problem that we have been paying for some years now. Before we joined, a retirement plan was made in which women retire at 48 and men at 53. A catastrophe because, since they were at the peak of their training, this retirement was granted and, well, fortunately many voluntarily stayed longer. I must say that we have more than 40,000 retirees, about 41,600 or so, who have opted for early retirement. The conditions have changed very recently, but it was a mistake to delay it so much. Fortunately, Telmex has made a great team despite this early retirement issue, because since we arrived, first we competed against AT&T, Banamex, Bancomer and Alfa, all together. They said they were going to wipe us off in a minute, and not at all, they have not been able to do anything against Telmex, fortunately.
The companies in the group are shown on the slide, the number of employees, excluding retirees, is 359,000 people.
América Móvil is in 24 countries, in Brazil, and we are also in Austria and other countries around Austria. We also joined the FCC company a little over 10 years ago, which was in very problematic conditions. They had had a crisis in Spain and in Europe, and we were impacted a bit here in 2008. There was a very difficult situation and the company had too many bankruptcies, debts and acquisitions but, fortunately, we joined at the end of December 14, with 71,370 people. We have already split it, in fact there are more than two and the functions are very interesting.
One of the functions is the environment, it has a fantastic garbage collection service. After garbage is collected, it goes to recycling and then it goes to incineration or landfills. It has been very interesting, it is a company that is in the US working well, and obviously its main function is in Spain and England, and abroad in Central Europe. It is a very efficient company. There is another one that manages water. Something that we have been lacking here, and we have already made two or three contracts, is water desalination. We will not lack water, because the sea is full! And the truth is that this is very important, because there is treatment and we have it here in Atotonilco, Hidalgo and it works very well. It holds 35 m³ per second, which is very good. There are 12 meters that go through primary treatment, while the other through tertiary treatment. That is, water that is recycled from the national drainage system, which, as you know, was previously used by the Grand Drainage Canal, built by Porfirio Díaz, but as the city sank, the Canal was started and then the drainage tunnels were built, the central and eastern ones, and those tunnels lead to Atotonilco, and there the water is treated, because water management is very important.
We have other construction activities, just to show you a bit, we built the Bernabéu, you know it, it’s a stadium. The project is by FCC, obviously together with Real Madrid. We won the bid with Real Madrid and this soccer stadium was built. Before that, we built the Atlético de Madrid’s stadium, which was in conflict, but we fixed it very quickly. They are very serious people, Miguel Ángel, who was very happy and so were we.
The most difficult thing is that it had a steel ring in the center, people walk around there and everything was fixed, because it was on the ground and it was raised and since it was done with ties, it seemed like it was levitating, they said that at night the goal was like a flying saucer and then they installed tensile structures and the spell disappeared. The company also has construction, it has concessions and it has a very important cement factory; as well as a real estate area, it is a company with 71,300 workers all over the world. They were working here, on a section of the Mayan Train, and they were two very good engineers.
Question and Answer Session
Carla Martínez from Grupo Imagen and Excélsior: I would like to know what you think about the entire relationship that Mexico currently has with the United States.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: That is exactly what happens in the third case.
Carla Martínez: Well, regarding the telecommunications company América Móvil, you have repeatedly said that you are practically extending infrastructure for third parties to use. I would like to know what do you think about this issue and about the disappearance of the Federal Institute of Telecommunications. How will the sector be now?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: The first thing is that when we got in, we began to learn more about the business. We told the partners, who were experts, that we were very interested in their opinion and participation, because we were not investors but operators. So, we did very well because it worked very well thanks to the French. The public telephones were huge. We still have 550,000 that were the originals. They were great because people didn’t have a telephone. First, we had to install 2.2 M, and when there were those two million, they began having a telephone. But there are remote places where there is no telephone, but there are public telephones. Since they used a coin to operate, they filled up. Then, France Telecom’s recommendation was to make them work with a prepaid card, so all 550,000 were converted to use a prepaid card. And it was so efficient that we managed to sell more than 25 million in one month, like 26, I don’t remember. Right now we sell, I think three thousand, or I think we don’t sell them anymore, they are not used now.
When we started selling cell phones, they were very expensive, the device was like a brick, and we decided on the prepaid system. In some way we invented it in Mexico, and now 80%, 70% of the world has one, it’s a shame it couldn’t be patented. But the idea came from the public telephone that worked with a card, and then it was brought to cell phones. We called this program Amigo Telcel, Amigo Kit, and we subsidized the device to sell cards that were very expensive, but then the price dropped. So it has been very convenient, because as Telefónica was coming to Mexico, we said, well, they’re not going to corner us.
So, we started going to other places to compete against Telefónica. There we competed with the largest in the world, which was ATT, and with the largest in Latin America, which was Telefónica, but I don’t know what happened to it. It has shrunk, it has concentrated in Brazil, London and Germany. We managed to make Telcel a competitor of Telmex. This was not supported by our partners or by the market. They obstructed it, so that it would not be dependent, but rather become a competitor. So, Telmex was apparently a monopoly in long distance, which was broken when ATT arrived, and long distance was opened. In local telephony, it had competition from cell phones. In fact, after a few years, local telephones almost disappeared. Cell phones grew so much, especially with prepaid options and when prices dropped. Now local telephones are available only in businesses and some places.
The second, about IFETEL; we have bad memories, because it regulated us but took things away from us, etc. It’s fine, it was accepted to give the other competitors support so they could develop. The truth is, we didn’t think that ATT, which was the largest in the world, or Telefónica, which was the largest in Latin America, needed much support, do you understand? We were supporting the big guys, which was irrational.
What other problem did we have with IFETEL? It never gave us pay TV and neither did the presidents, so it’s a service that for the only time in the world, we don’t have. We have a battered Telmex that has a great network. You go everywhere, on any highway, you see a Telmex cable, the whole Republic is full of fiber optic cable, we have the best network, but we can’t provide pay television yet. In fact there was a moment when it was going to be given, but they made us go back, so we don’t understand them, what I can say is that it wasn’t so autonomous.
But it did have a function that was fulfilled, because it turns out that the IFETEL president was appointed by the legal director of the presidency, so who did the president of IFETEL obey to? The legal director of the presidency, and who did he obey in turn? They didn’t have to be giving orders and there was another one who worked well for three years, there was a good relationship, the president told me, we have to deal with him for the first three years, but then they introduced things from another angle and it didn't work out well. So it's a shame that it was like that.
I’ll switch back to your question that I forgot: what Telmex, América Móvil, Telefónica, and all the telecommunications companies in the world have been fighting for, is that we are providing the service to YouTube for free. And that is wrong, because instead of providing it to those “big companies” that are worth 2 or 4 trillion, instead of providing it to them, they should have a payment that would be for the client benefit. Because the service would be very cheap, because the one who is paying for the service is the client. It is curious that a client who has 300 Pesos to contract the broadband service pays for it, and those who have trillions like Netflix, for those who stream content the network is free.
The FCC of the United States was already going to authorize it, but they moved in Silicon Valley and stopped it. I think it was with President Barack Obama, so in any case the service is there, clients are there; it is working, telecommunications companies are there. But we are very punished, for example the companies Verizon, ATT, etc. They are seven times earnings, seven times dividends, and there they are.
Claudia Villegas from Fortuna Magazine: Thank you. Speaking of the Group, I would like to ask you, what you would say to the 2024 Nobel Prize winners in Economics, Daron Acemoglu, Simon Johnson and James A. Robinson, about crony capitalism, who dedicate an entire chapter to you in their book "Why Nations Fail."
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Oh no, that’s the one from the Mexican liar from Monterrey, who came to tell them that I hadn’t won, that he had won and that they gave it to me?
Claudia Villegas: But what would you say to them?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: What idiots they are, they write things without knowing what they write.
Claudia Villegas: Why do they say that Telmex…?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: We’ve already sent them a complete study and they no longer post it and they stopped and they already removed it from online.
Claudia Villegas: But structurally they are wrong, because they claim…
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Let me give you an opinion, right now we are living a difficult time in the world, which is a civilizational change and there are acute problems, I believe that those Nobel Prize winners and those scholars of economics and business have never done business, as Lorenzo Servitje said, they have never paid a payroll. So it occurred to them to say that we are in globalization and we have to buy where it is cheaper. And, what happened to the United States? Well, it stopped having co-production of goods and a moment is happening in which a fundamental change is coming, because it is not possible to have such simplistic dependencies … and those are the Nobel Prize winners.
Claudia Villegas: I asked you why they give an example, that Mexico does not have institutions. That in the United States, for example, there is a patent office that allows innovation and encourages, and they give as an example that the system that privatized Telmex allowed a private group to capture that income, that value. And then, we would have at this moment, that Musk is threatening us, well, we would have more innovation, what do you think about that, because you just told us…
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: The first thing you said, first, in this company 49% was Mexican. And 51% was state-owned. What was privatized was 20.4%, of which France Telecom had 5%, SBC had 5%, and 10.4% were Mexican. Of those 10.4%, I had 3.8% when it was privatized. What was Telmex, I already read to you what they invested! Didn't you see what happened? Now that we're taking advantage of the income, do you know how much Telmex is costing us?
Claudia Villegas: Yes, in fact he just told us about the issue of pensions.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Do you think that a person who had no principles, as I believe we do, the family, the Group, would have gotten rid of them 15 years ago? We would have handed them over to the government and they would have been delighted to keep Telmex.
Claudia Villegas: Is the pensions fund being properly funded today, Mr. Slim?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, the labor liabilities are MX$270,000 M and the pension fund is worth 150,000. And that pension fund did not come from the government, that pension fund was created by us. Is there anyone who has the exact data on the pension fund?
Claudia Villegas: I wanted to ask you…
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: We are exploiting an income, when we first entered, we create an income
Claudia Villegas: A value
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: In three years we changed to Telmex; started buying shares, and lowering prices. When they say we make a lot, broadband prices here are lower than in the United States and that's even though you pay 16% VAT and I think 3% tax, right? Well, even with 19% it's cheaper here, isn't there anyone who knows how much it costs there and here? Dani, don't you know more or less the prices?
Dani: I think it’s about 30% lower here
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: In other words, it is cheaper. Now, why didn't we go to more places that were not covered? The president thought it was very easy to cover them, and the government thinks it is very easy to cover them. But, why didn't we go to many more places? Because even though we told IFETEL, "Hey, don't count as predominant the places where there is no competition, where I have to provide a service, because if not, people don't have service." They never gave us a chance. They never gave us the opportunity to go and set up there and not count the number of what we call social telephony. So, this is an important factor. Now, just imagine, how nice it would have been!
Telmex did very well at the beginning because it changed everything. We charged for long distance, long distance increased, public telephones increased, everything worked very well for, let's say, 15 years. We gave dividends to everyone; we gave a little dividend, but we gave it. And even today we still ask for permission, but IFETEL no longer exists. We have been asking for years to remove public telephones, because public telephones are no longer manufactured, and we have 530 thousand public telephones spread throughout the Republic. They have not authorized us to reduce the number of telephones.
Claudia Villegas: So, is the regulatory innovation system failing and for you having 70 % of the market income is becoming a snowball, Mr. Slim?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, wait, you’re talking about the mobile market, think about landline telephony, in landline see how much income we have, first we don’t have pay TV, so we have zero market share, do you agree? Everything belongs to the TV stations. Locally it hardly works and we already share like 38% of the market, so the truth is that in landline we should share like 25% of the market, and we invest a lot there. We have to install fiber optic and in mobile telephony we have an important leadership. Who started with mobile telephony, Telcel or the others? Who started first? The others. Telcel was never a monopoly, it came out when the others had 100% of the market and then we competed against ATT, against Telefónica.
Claudia Villegas: And now Elon Musk…
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Wait, and now it turns out that we are very bad and abusive, and we have more market share, more than the largest in the world and the other largest, let’s see, why? First, we ranked second in the market, we competed against ATT that ate up Iusacell, Nextel and Telefónica, which came to compete linked to Televisa; because they had their own company and it failed them in the end. And so they shared 70% of the market. And there is also Altán from the Government, now there are three, so is it bad for Telcel to be competitive and beat ATT and whoever comes? If that is bad then, I don’t know, if that is what Nobel Prize winners think, they are stupid.
Claudia Villegas: Thank you, Sir.
Alicia Salgado from Excelsior: The question is very direct, what would you expect from the new anti-monopoly entity? In other words, we, the users of Infinitum, we could say, or Telcel or whatever, have never had a clear solution for the exit from the preponderance. There is an entry all over the world, but there is also an exit and here there is no exit, that is one.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: There is always someone who has 51%, when there are two competing like ATT and us, well, one has 51%. How do you eliminate someone having 51%? Well, just by inventing some gosht. I don’t know if I explain myself, and if there are two competitors in any activity or one has more than 50%, it’s arithmetic.
Alicia Salgado: And would you still like having TV?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Wait a second. Going back to the previous point, they illegally changed the law. IFETEL had established an interconnection charge. I think it was 20 cents for us and the other was thirty something. Well, we paid him, say, 40, and he paid us 20. That is part of an adjustment by IFETEL due to preponderance, you were giving advantages to the other and suddenly they pass a law illegally, those who were not from IFETEL, but against IFETEL, above IFETEL… but the “little team” that I told you about. And, they pass a law that we have zero interconnection. It means that, everything they talk about, they pay zero. And we pay them 35 cents. That's how it was, and what happens is that despite that, Telefónica and ATT started doing something stupid things. And how much did that cost Telcel that year? MX$20,000 M. Is it reasonable for Telcel to donate ATT, which are the big ones, and the others MX$20,000 M? Well, no, that is what they took away and what they stopped paying for the interconnection.
Alicia Salgado: The question is, is the Carso group still interested in investing in Lakach, the natural gas oil field?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: It is being analyzed because a pipeline was already there. It is a complicated project that has to be done by great technicians, there is one, two or three maximum who are dedicated to that and everything is in process and they had already lay a pipeline and all of that is being studied.
Alicia Salgado: But are you still interested?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Well, it will depend on the installation. There are two or three companies that are dedicated to install a type of pipeline at a depth of 900 meters. It is not just any job, in other words, you have to make the installation and exploit the gas at that depth, not just anyone can do that. But leave it for another time, otherwise there won’t be time.
Nicolás Lucas from El Economista: Three questions on telecommunications. The first would be: What do you think if, for example, the new Digital Agency in Telecommunications, the replacement for the IFT, modifies the preponderance measures for Telmex and Telcel?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Please, understand, Telmex has no preponderance, understand in Spanish. Look, Telmex has no preponderance, please underline it, it has zero participation in pay TV. In broadband it must share about 38% of market. So, if you have zero here and 38 there, what you have are many old phones that have not been paid off, that are already an obsolete product that is no longer a market objective, etc. Telmex is not preponderant, on the contrary, it has a disadvantage, they have not allowed it to provide pay TV service to its customers.
Nicolás Lucas: The other question, what do you think about Altán being given the 2500 MHz band, being a public-private company?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Let's see, where is the private sector? It is in debt; it is completely bankrupt... the debt is... it is completely bankrupt... it owes 30 billion pesos!
Nicolás Lucas: Do you think it is anti-competitive for the CFE to become a shareholder in the company? Is it anti-competitive?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: CFE? No, CFE is a commendable objective. Service and connectivity are almost universally obligatory. I believe that they are already in the Constitution. Everyone should have the right to connectivity. So, if we are limited by the fact that we have more clients or greater participation, then let them do it. Good thing they are doing it, good thing they are doing it, and they are not going to charge.
Nicolás Lucas: And the last question, you said that three presidents did not give you the television. At any point did former president López Obrador promise that he would give the television to Telmex?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Well, why am I telling you? He didn’t give us any. Sorry, everyone, ask the same question so we can finish…
Unidentified journalist: Good afternoon, Don Carlos, what is the future of Telmex with these technological changes that we are seeing?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Who knows.
Unidentified journalist: We are seeing a change in the economic model at a global level. What niche opportunities do you, the big businessmen and big corporations, have?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Look, I don't know about the economic model, we entered civilization many years ago, Toffler said it more than 50 years ago, the civilizational change from an industrial society to a digital, technological or service or tertiary society, or whatever you want to call it... the change is not complicated, we are talking about artificial intelligence, right? Look, these changes seem easy to me. But my father, who was born many years ago, there was no radio, no electricity, no television, no aviation, no cars. That is change, but all these changes are not like they cause a catastrophe.
Unidentified journalist: And finally, what message could you give to the working class, since there are speculated cuts coming or that there will be cuts due to a possible recession?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: That goes in the third point
Ana Luisa Gutiérrez from Expansión: The first one is also about Altán in one of the drafts they are making about the secondary laws, José Merino’s Agency is envisioning that Altán will become the owner of the spectrum, but for free. What is your opinion?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: But he already has it for free…
Ana Luisa Gutiérrez: But the 700 band would be another one.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: He has the, 700 which is very important.
Ana Luisa Gutiérrez: And in that context, do you think that there is still an opportunity for Telmex and América Móvil to continue investing in an environment that, I don’t know if it is still competitive?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Well, yes, it is competitive. It only has one client, Altán, and it offers it very cheaply. It has no clientele. Now there it is between the two forces, Altán and CFE, they should join them. And CFE has proposed that it provide connectivity through the network it has and the towers, I think they are confusing light towers with telephone towers, but that is where they are going… CFE can provide the service.
Ana Luisa Gutiérrez: But they would approve it to provide service to end users, not only as a wholesaler, even that is being considered. It is being considered that it will no longer only be a company that provides capacity to operators, but that it will also go to end users, that it will be given that possibility of services, let’s say, to companies.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Look, the best, cheapest, most economical and quickest thing to do, and I have told you, is to create a Wi-Fi environment around all the facilities you have, such as the Bancos del Bienestar, where you have chairs, tables, everything, and people can go there with their phones to use the Wi-Fi. In rural schools and health centers, Wi-Fi networks should be established for people to use, and then, the cost of the student or the person should be the cost of the device.
I recommend you visit the Biodiversity Pavilion at the University City. Does anyone know it or not? Go to the Biodiversity Pavilion, we have 20 gigabytes there. There are kids with X number of computers, they can borrow iPads if they want; or they use their phone and connect, and they have Wi-Fi, free of charge. That's what they should do, give access to it wherever they have space, in federal government facilities.
Ana Luisa Gutiérrez: And finally, last week the Secretary of Economy said that they are going to begin to review the issue of all industries to speed up the review of the USMCA. And I would like to ask you if within these reviews there would be the issue of thoroughly reviewing the issue of suppliers; where we see that, for example, in the telecommunications sector, there are many Chinese suppliers. Are you also reviewing these issues in order to, precisely, reduce dependence on China?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Look, as long as it is legal, Chinese suppliers are very good, but we work a lot with Ericsson, which is a company that has given us great service and Huawei does the same as Ericsson, so contracting with one with the other.
Juan Carlos Villarroel from Consumo TIC: I would like to ask you about the preponderance measures, now that, speaking of mobile telephony… now with the constitutional change, the disappearance of the IFT, the creation of the Agency, what is the future that you see for these preponderance measures and what would be the opportunity that you would have to make the authorities see these points of view that you have on the subject of preponderance, please?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Which points of view on preponderance? Well, I insist, unless you don't know how to add, that Telmex is not preponderant.
Juan Carlos Villarroel: No, I was talking about Telcel
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I thought you were talking about everything. Well, we've agreed, Telmex is not preponderant. They have been without this service for a long time. In addition, they put pressure on; the regulator did many things against Telmex, including. Because the interconnection in Telmex also remained at zero for a long time, so Telmex had no income from interconnection. But they put a lot of pressure on the regulator to force us to split Telmex off, what we call 'last mile'. In other words, to take all of Telmex's last mile infrastructure to a different company. Obviously, that was a labor problem, there were problems of that type, that more or less it has been organized, but curiously it is not used, that is on Telmex's side.
Now, on Telcel's side, let them tell us how they want to play it and that's how we play it, I don't know if I'm explaining myself. Instead of telling us that it's not a connection, and that it's so much and that I'm going to take it away from you and that you're dominant, and they announce it to brag about what they're regulating and what they're doing; let them tell us what they want! That if 70% is a lot, of the number of clients, then we reduce it in prepaid, and that we've already removed the prepaid service and they're no longer 70%. So, we stop providing service.
Or for example the telephones, I think that what the regulator didn’t do for 20 years, is allow that instead of there being 550000 public telephone sets that don’t work because there are no more spare parts, then say: keep 5,000 or 10 thousand and cannibalize the others, etc. but they don’t say yes. So let the regulator talk, and if they tell us they want us to be smaller, we stop investing, but not stopping providing the best service to our customers, because we would concentrate the investment where it is needed, you know that there is 5G, 4G, 4.5G 3G, 2G and we continue maintaining the service to those who have 2G phones. What we are looking for is for the client to have 3G and to work for them, in other words, what we would need is for them to tell us how they want it, what they want and how they want Telcel to be. Right now, Telcel is working against ATT, which has already taken everything that had been a catastrophe out of Mexico, and Telefónica is an ATT client.
Altán is selling, let them sell to people in places where there really is no connection and there is no service. Let them go and provide service there, but what is Altán doing selling service in Mexico City? It would be better for them to come to an agreement with CFE and promote 3G or 4G phones, that they either leave 2G or go to 4G. And let us know how they want it. But what is a shame is that Altán, which has a free use of the network, does not pay rent, I think they pay 1% of what we pay. Well, it is not providing a social service to anyone, let it go to the rural areas where it is being said that the CFE is going to do it. And let them give it there, and let them give it the spectrum it wants. Although the spectrum should be given to everyone, because the only thing it will cause, you see that ATT has already left some spectrum... well, with these prices, who wants spectrum.
We’re moving on to another topic. Do have a Foundation magazine? Cesar, bring me the Foundation magazine.
The Foundation was created in 1986, although it already had previous programs. But they gave us permission and it was founded as such in 1986. Basically, we have these three foundations, the Carlos Slim Foundation dates back to 1986, and the Telcel Foundation dates back to 1990 and we have had programs that we are very happy with, which have been intense and diverse. We have had everything from extramural surgery, Ayúdame a Llegar, with bicycles for rural areas, which would help a lot with telephone services, too. In short, there are many projects, plans in sports, in everything we have done.
In our meeting a few months ago, we decided to definitely include Telmex, Telcel, Inbursa, the Foundations, in a very ambitious program to fight poverty. Sometimes, you don't understand how, for example, there are great social plans, pay salaries and such, or to raise pensions, and do this and even write it in the Constitution and, at the same time, poverty continues. The best way in which one can execute and carry out the most, is associated, linked, etc.
Here, in this first point, for example, there is feeding; so, we are talking with food banks, which have a lot of work and do a lot of good, in order to be able to expand to a national or almost national level, and to substantially increase the work that is done in this food area. For example, right now we are talking about almost two million… that these food banks, through third parties, are donating food. We are planning to increase this number very quickly to six or eight. Obviously, we have to build refrigerated warehouses, we have to design the distribution, how it is done, in what places, etc. But we are already working on it; and, obviously, one of the ideas is that if there is a group already working in a certain dimension, ask them to increase such dimension and based on that, we will multiply the effect. So, that is one of the points, and I don’t know if you are coming, Roberto.
The other point is health. We have been working for a long time on many health programs. And now, the idea not only about food, but also about health; we also want to go into education; we also want to go into sports; we also want to go into their house, so that they have a painted house, with a bathroom, windows, etc., so that all impacts can be made in fighting against poverty. Don't you want to talk about health?
Roberto Tapia Conyer: With pleasure, engineer. Well, indeed, one of the central elements is to fight and eradicate poverty in one element; just as food is health. And a program has already been implemented, that will be in operation as of this year, which is adding many other activities that we have carried out during the last 12 - 15 years. It is a direct action in the areas of extreme poverty in the country. We are talking about those places where health services are literally provided by institutions, in particular the old IMSS-Bienestar program, which has been there for a couple of decades; strengthening its infrastructure and training.
But, above all, reaching mothers, reaching children, particularly in their first 1,000 days of life. The 1,000 days of life change the development condition of that boy or girl for the rest of his or her life and, obviously, the program allows parents to have a health guarantee for their children, which is one of the highest out-of-pocket expenditures, when they are not covered in a timely manner. Today, one of the elements to measure the progress index, the lack of economic resources, is the expenditure made on health issues by families.
What is the coverage, to give you an idea? Right now, we now about reaching three states where we are, in the 1,163 poorest municipalities in Mexico. This means providing care in more than 2,000 rural units; in some conurbation areas, but with total marginalization and in 62 hospitals, guaranteeing and taking advantage of exactly what has been talked about here: the benefit of the telephone part, of the cell phone part. It is the capacity to increase access to health services.
Today, health services are seen within a framework of digital health ecosystems to take advantage of cell phones and broadband platforms. However, the developments we make at the Foundation, very aware of the social condition of people, is that everything we do is in the possibility of doing it with or without internet, with the capacity for service. This is an immediate benefit in terms of care and coverage. And soon, we hope to expand coverage year after year in an analysis we are conducting, to reach areas of higher marginalization.
This is in addition to what has been done for another problem that generates poverty, which is chronic diseases. Mexico is one of the countries with the highest burden of diabetes, hypertension and kidney failure, not to mention obesity. All of this necessarily leads to the use of health services. We are working on two fronts: the prevention front using digital media, through a platform called MIDO; which is currently operating more than 4,000 units, and we will be reaching 12,000 units, more or less, of what is today the IMSS Bienestar OPD, thanks to the collaboration with the Ministry of Health itself and the IMSS Bienestar OPD
This will give us coverage for the prevention of chronic diseases. But we also operate the system that has already become an official system of the Ministry of Health, which is a nominal registry of patients suffering from diabetes and hypertension, to guarantee the best quality of care in more than 12,000 units throughout the country. All these elements, both in terms of health in the first days, care of pregnant women, newborns, and chronic diseases - which are the number one burden health consequence and, therefore, on health expenditure of the population - affect the ability to get out of poverty. This is the component that is added to the issues that the Mr. Slim already mentioned about food, housing, and therefore, a much more social condition to be able to get people out of poverty.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I don’t know if you want to comment on anything
Hector Gallardo: Yes, to emphasize the value of early and timely detection and treatment of anemia and malnutrition in pregnant women; and with that, the early detection of anemia and malnutrition in children, even before they turn two years old. If we are able, as we will be, to expand coverage of early detection of these two conditions in mothers and children, we will be creating a completely different generation of Mexicans. That is the objective of providing care to areas of extreme poverty throughout the country with this program.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: What I wanted to say is what we did in 1994 in the Children's Hospital. They had tested some baby food, which we later tested in Villahermosa and Pachuca. It was a puree given to the mother during pregnancy, that is, to feed the mother during pregnancy and the child would be born with 15 or 20% more weight. If the mother is fed during pregnancy, the child is born larger and healthier, etc. In addition, we also had to take care of maternal and infant mortality. The idea we had, was to feed the child for two years, because two years is when the brain grows. So, let them continue feeding with the puree, and they are already extending it to 1,000 days, right?
Roberto Tapia: That's right. Now with this we have already developed a whole supplement in the Foundation called CreciMido, and that will be part of the nutrition program, taking up those experiences Mr. Slim has described, which have been very successful in improving nutritional condition. We are recovering it and the food enrichening, and the part of iron and other vitamins during pregnancy. So, all of that is part of the program.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I presented it to President Zedillo, who didn't know it. It took a little time to organize it, but he got the program for nutrition for mothers during pregnancy and for children going for the next two years. And the Fox government continued it and then it ended. So, it stopped being given. It was a bag with powdered milk, corn flour, sugar, oil... and now the idea is to get it going seriously, as intensively as possible and as comprehensively as possible with what we understood at that time.
Also, with Juan Ramón de la Fuente who was the Secretary of Health, when President Zedillo took office, we got the Extramural Surgery project going, jointly by the Secretary of Health, the Assembly of Surgeons of the Republic and we participated by supporting it. What was done there, was that surgeons gave their time on weekends, to perform surgeries and teach in the remote places they went to. The government managed the Health Sector, they knew what the status was, how much was needed, how many patients there were, for what… and they performed surgeries in ophthalmology, orthopedics and reconstructive surgery. We worked there for a long time, we performed more than 100,000 surgeries a year; and at the beginning it was 2,000. But the Seguro Popular told us was that they did them better, etc., and we stopped participating, but we have to start again. Is Fausto there? Arturo, do you remember? Were there like 100,000 thousand that were performed?
Arturo Elías Ayub: We managed to perform 110 thousand in one year.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: The doctors gave their time. I was invited to an Assembly of the Academy, and the president of the Academy said that, although they were sacrificing their weekend when they were not with their loved ones, they support them understanding that it was more important going out than staying. We had a lot of support from the medical sector in all this. We provided them with travel expenses, instruments and materials that were needed. And, the truth is that it worked very well. I don't know if there are any questions, or if you want to comment, Arturo, on the other things we do, like Ver para Aprender (See to Learn) y Ayúdame a Llegar, etc.
Arturo Elías Ayub: We managed to perform the surgeries that Mr. Slim was talking about, we managed to perform more than 1.1 M surgeries in total. And we have many other programs such as the Food Banks. What the Food Banks do is collect food from places like large supermarkets, supply centers that give us that food. The trick is all the logistics, going to collect it, refrigerate it and distribute it; and that is where a very important investment is needed and as the said, two million. These Food Banks are 30 years old and serve 2 million people with food needs. Today we want to move very quickly to 8 million people, I think that this program changes, as the Doctor said, I am not a doctor but it radically changes many things. People properly fed can study, can work, in other words, it changes their lives. And we have, as Mr. Slim said, many other programs such as the delivery of wheelchairs and bicycles. The Ayúdame a Llegar program is very nice, because we give a bicycle to the kids who live more than an hour away from their school, so they don’t have to walk and get tired and then return an hour and a half through the mountains. We have delivered more than half a million bicycles in this program.
We also have sports programs such as the Telmex Cup, the largest soccer tournament in the world with more than 250 thousand players. We have seen that in communities involved, bars are closed, aggressions, rapes, etc., end during the nine months the tournament lasts, because the whole community is focused on beating the neighbor town, and then winning the state and national tournaments. The truth is that there are many very nice programs, but now the Mr. Slim has ordered us to grow all of this in a very important way to fight extreme poverty and improve education.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: And pay those who are winning
Arturo Elías Ayub: Oh yes, now he wants to pay kids who make it to the finals
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: There are about 220,000 players
Arturo Elías Ayub: 250,000 players.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: And in Baseball there are like five, it is clear that he likes it!
Arturo Elías Ayub: No, not in baseball, there are like 40,000.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, what happened?
Arturo Elías Ayub: Yes, and in basketball like 30,000, it is clear that I like soccer.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Well, the important thing here is that when there are not thousands of teams against thousands of teams, we can give some incentive, something more.
Arturo Elías Ayub: And education, which is super important.
Javier Elguea Solís: Good afternoon, in education, the Foundation has had in-person and online programs taking advantage of digital technology, to stimulate at least two sets of educational variables. First, those corresponding to basic education, where the PISA and Khan Academy testing platforms have reached more than 30 million students, in fundamental math skills, reading comprehension and general language, and science and technology.
Secondly, and one of the Foundation's top concerns, is to increase people's employability. Not only schooling, not only education, but people's employability. And so, the Capacítate para el Empleo (Train for Employment) platform was created, which has 12,842 M registered recurring users, in 414 different trades... from the most traditional like plumbing, electricity, carpentry, to the typical trades of the 21st Century, such as programming, data mining, Big Data, etc. Those are the two large groups that the Foundation has.
Javier Elguea Solís The Engineer also mentioned that we grant higher education scholarships. Arturo can talk more about that topic. More than 700,000 scholarships have been granted in higher education to all public and private universities in this country. And the National Biodiversity Pavilion, which Engineer Slim already referred to; which is dedicated to the dissemination of science, biology, the dissemination of empirical knowledge of the world that surrounds Mexican children.
More than 3,600 digital libraries have been installed throughout the country, but it has the most ambitious of them there. As Mr. Slim said, more than 300 tablets on daily borrowing, plus the one that each one carries, 20 gigabytes of connectivity, nutritional scholarships that are granted there, a thousand daily, for students who want to use it to study, do research, educate themselves. There is also a book repository, where we have more than 5 million book downloads. It is said that Mexicans do not read, and I believe that this is the greatest refutation. Five M books have been downloaded in just one year, through our digital platform, aprende.org, where all of the Foundation's online education programs are open to the public free of charge.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: It should be highlighted that the educational part, the study, the academic study is what is most sought after. And what we have promoted here is not to going to the academic but to training, to train for employment. In other words, not to take courses in literature or history or even math, but take courses inducing them to learn and to take and select their job. And this helps a lot, because when they choose the course, receive their diploma, have the knowledge of the training course and go to the job they chose, the turnover is lower because the person who goes is ready for it, whether being in the cooking are, tourism or any activity they have studied.
But maybe, I think you didn't talk about technology. Here, technology is being applied a lot through non-classroom training and education. We already have one from the UNAM’s Law School. So, non-classroom education can be delivered, but the important thing is that, according to Javier, he will have the data right now, computing and systems issues, all this technological stuff, is what they are looking for the most.
Javier Elguea Solís: Exactly, about 30% of the jobs we offer, out of the 414 jobs we have, are focused on to technology, on which I called 21st Century jobs. And more than 40% of the participant population, of the almost 14 M students of the Capacitación para el Empleo program, are dedicated to technology topics, such as programming, data mining, repair of electronic equipment and cell phones, in short, jobs that only 10 years ago did not exist and have become the main sources of employment in our economies.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Thank you, I don’t know if there are any comments and we move on.
Rogelio Varela from Heraldo de México: I don’t know if you can comment on how the Carlos Slim Foundation is funded, to be able to expand these social benefits you mentioned. Some multimillionaires in the world spend a large part of their fortunes on this type of programs, for example, Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. Tell us a little about the funding of this Foundation.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: A few years ago, our entire family donated shares to the Foundation. And it has been very well managed, in the sense that the vast majority of the money goes to serve third parties and the administration is very lean. In other words, internal expenses are very low. We have done something with Bill Gates, we have supported him in a program that has been very long, we agreed to give him a certain amount, he reports to us and informs us how he is doing. I think it is not our way of working, but he has adapted to some of the things we have done.
Roberto Tapia: Yes, engineer, we have several programs, one is the Salud Mesoamérica (Health Mesoamerica) project.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: The first was polio, and he continues because he still cannot eliminate polio
Roberto Tapia: It was used to purchase vaccines, precisely.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Another very important project that we have worked with every time he asks us, because it is very important for Mexico, although Mexico does not use it very much, is CIMMYT, the International Maize and Wheat Improvement Center. We have already done two things together with CIMMYT, one was a few years ago when he came to Mexico for the inauguration of what we had built, and right now we are doing another project for CIMMYT. It is a research center for maize and wheat that is very important. They have used it for many years. It originated with the famine in Pakistan and India, which were dying of hunger… and with maize, with the Green Revolution, the famine that was there was ended and overcome. I think it was in 1961, the one who was here at the Center, whose name always slips my mind, was given the Nobel Prize for this thing about feeding India. And what this Center is doing is researching to make it more efficient, where to plant, how to plant, at what time to plant, if it is high, if it is low, if it is cold, hot, etc., etc.
Roberto Tapia: That’s right, and we also have a very ambitious program to eradicate malaria in the region, which is also a very important contribution that has allowed us to provide polio vaccines to the entire world. And that goal was achieved, and we also worked with President Carter, may he rest in peace, at his Carter Center, to eliminate a disease called onchocerciasis. It is caused by a fly that causes blindness in people who become infected, and it has also been eliminated from Latin America, except in an area at the junction of the Amazon, between Venezuela and Brazil, with a population of 4,000 indigenous people who live there, and who are migrants and nomads and it has not been possible to control it. But those are projects that we do with international organizations.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: President Carter came more than once. Did he come, like two or three times? He was very old, but very motivated, very interested. He was there with us working with great interest. So, those that are done in collaboration, we did get involved, like, for example, the one we did with the Worldwide Wildlife Fund, which is a fund dedicated to the biodiversity protection and preservation. We made an agreement to work on it here in Mexico, and the condition we put on them was that everything would go to the project and nothing to administration. And it was very efficient. What we had planned to do in five years, we did through third parties and the whole program was extended a lot. So, yes, we always have that type of programs in Mexico.
Luis Pablo Segundo, Reforma Newspaper: I would like to ask you two questions. First, what implications and measures will Grupo Carso take in this case, given that 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum are being announced?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: That is for the fourth case, we are almost there and what is the other question, this one is very important.
Luis Pablo Segundo: Before that, I also want to ask you something else, in terms of telecommunications. The Digital Transformation and Telecommunications Agency, we know that it is also part of the federal government, is a proposal from the federal government, responsible for regulating and monitoring all measures in telecommunications. But what implications does this figure have, given that today there is an Agency or there is a figure such as CFE Telecom and Altán Redes. Can the agency perhaps be both judge and party? Thank you.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Let’s see how it is organized, we still don’t know who they are, what it is like, where it is, etc. so if you allow me, it is urgent.
Before getting into the important stuff, I want to make a few comments. What has happened in Mexico? What interests us? We are interested in the future of Mexico; we are interested in the present and the future of Mexico. And we have analyzed what has happened like the great golden age, which they called the Mexican miracle, when from 1933 to 1981, we grew at 6.2, 6.3% annually. And what has happened? In the last 43 years, we have grown at 2% more or less. One ninety, two percent... so, the growth of 43 years... that is what we have experienced in these 43 years. And, in the last 24, we have grown at one and a half percent, while the population grew at three percent, then it grew at one and a half. So, that means that if we grew by one and a half or two, or one nine, it means that we grew by point three, point four. But we would have to subtract the population growth from this to get the per capita income, per person. That's what we've experienced; in fact, despite having had very good technocrats, like Nobel Prize winners, but national, we grew with 19.6 inflation. Curiously we get the data; we made 14 tax reforms, up and down, from one side to the other, so I would say that there was not so much care in economic growth and development.
And what happened with the tax reforms? If one tax was raised, something else happened; if there was another, something else affected. In the case we are currently seeing, I am very optimistic because it seems that the president in particular is not looking for wage fluctuations in costs. For example, I think that yesterday or the day before yesterday she said something that is very interesting; she spoke about the macroeconomy. If we have a stable macroeconomy, if inflation does not suddenly go down because we did this or that thing, if we take care of inflation and it is at reasonable levels and the macroeconomy is stable, we are convinced that the future can be very good. It coincides with what the president said in the Plan México. Here she is talking about a formula for growth, she brings several points, but in order to grow, investment and more investment are needed, so that becomes a very important factor.
I had a note here that is worth reading, because it says, what would have happened if Mexico, instead of growing 1.40 or 1.90, had grown 2% more, meaning that instead of growing 1.40, it had grown 3.40, or instead of growing 1.90, it had grown 3.90? Two percent is not true at all, not at all, thinking about the 6% before and in China, and well, what is happening is that 2%, it would have been fantastic, it would have taken us 43 years of 2% more, imagine where we would be, but let’s forget about that, let’s think about the future.
In the future, we have to take care of inflation, we have to take care of budgets, we have to take care of deficits, how resources are managed, etc. I am against it, I know that many are not and we can discuss it, that fiscal reforms are not good, maybe we have to fix things in the fiscal reforms, there is no doubt, but a fiscal reform, for example, that increases VAT or increases income tax, that increases it by 5%. What happens if they raise VAT or income tax? If they raise the tax, the product goes up, and if the product goes up, inflation goes up, and if inflation goes up, the interest rate goes up and the amount paid in interest rate will be higher than what is received from the increase in taxes and it breaks down macroeconomic stability.
On the other hand, if we have macroeconomic stability, we continue putting pressure on inflation, which has gone very well. The Bank of Mexico has already lowered the rate by half a point and has stated that it can go down by another half point. So, depending on whether inflation goes down or is controlled, macroeconomic stability is achieved, which lowers spending and the interest rate. It is a rate that reduces the deficit. For example, let’s suppose the rate was at 11 and now it is at 9.5, and if they lower it to 8, it has already gone down those three points, multiplied by the debt or by the savings on the debt. Assuming that what we are doing is stable, it is more important than a fiscal reform. I don’t know if you understand me. Now, what is happening? What are they planning?
What is the Mexico Plan? It is import substitution, well-paid employment, this is very important. What we are talking about in the fight against poverty is linked to having better jobs, to training for employment. When we do, for example, this distribution of food, you will have to provide employment to carry out the distribution, to make the boxes where the food is placed, so we see all of this.
They asked me about the risk of employment; we believe that a lot of employment will be generated. “Greater access to secondary and higher education.” We agree, they are part of the Mexico plans. I would just add this one that we have on training for education; so that it generates employment. Fortunately, as far as I know, we give a diploma to those who take the courses and I think it is ratified by the Ministry of Education, still or not? Well, then, you take the course, you get the certificate from the Institute and the certification, and here you set goals, “to be among the top 10”; but you set one that talks about increasing public purchases, support for SMEs, etc., etc. But there is another one that is very interesting, which says that we should invest between 25 and 28%, above 25%, starting in 2026. Investing above 25% is what will give us growth and development.
We have been reviewing some tables and we found that Europe is in a terrible state because it does not invest. In average of the 22 years, Europe invested 21.7 and grew 1.36. Italy invested 20, grew .55. Spain invested 22.6, grew 1.77. The Netherlands invested 20.8 and grew 1.62. This is in 24 years. Germany, for example, invested 20.2 and grew 1.13. Mexico invested 22.8 and grew 1.68. And the United States invested 21.4, another year 17.8, the other year 20. So, when we look at China, it is investing I don’t know how much, 40%. It is investing a lot! And who is investing a lot? Well, apart from China, India is investing a lot, and there are other countries that are investing a lot. Well, the idea here is that countries are not growing because they are not investing, growing at 1, growing at 2 is not growth.
When we talk about the United States, well, yes, it will continue growing and investing. It is growing at 2.2 in the last 24 years it invested 21.9. On the other hand, China grew, 8.1%. It invests in things that we cannot do, but it invests 40%. One of the fundamental things for Mexico in the immediate future, is that it grows, that we grow, that we invest. So, that is what the president is referring to, from 25 to 28, let’s say 25 and let’s see if by 30, it can be doing 28, but we have to look for us to invest.
Now, what is one of the interesting things about this all when we talk about investment? That, all over the world, all over the world, the main investment factor is private investment. It is the largest investment factor. I would say that, in Mexico, private investment is like 80% of the investment. That is, Mexico invests 80%, more or less, of what is invested. And, who is the other investor? The State, the public investment that can be around 3 or 4, depending on the collection, depending on the expenditure, depending on the interest rate, depending on the situation, etc. And, the other is the foreign investment, which comes and invests 2%.
So, what I am saying is that we are convinced that we need to invest more than 25%, if possible, this year. Of course, the government will not have the possibility to do so next year. Let there be communication between the company and the government, and let us invest 25% or close to 25% this year, as a conclusive measure with the significant investment from the private sector. Including public sector investment and, of course, investment from the foreign sector
And what is interesting? Well, the investment, just because it is 20%, does not mean that something will happen. It depends on what is invested in, it depends on what is invested to see what result is obtained. And, right now, the scheme that exists, we are going to invest now in infrastructure. Pemex is going to have to invest, CFE is going to have to invest, highways are going to have to be invested in; there are already highway projects that an engineer we commissioned six years ago did. He was already planning where to invest. I don't know, regarding the railroad, I think the one in Querétaro is sensible, it has been tried for a long time. The ones that are too long are competing with airplanes, but there is a huge need for investment in infrastructure. And, that investment, hopefully, could be accelerated and made as soon as possible, I was asked about Lakash. But about oil, it is falling behind, production is falling low, it is urgent to start production. About telecommunications, if CFE is going to build the Network, CFE also urgently needs to reinforce transmission, the construction of transmission, the maintenance of transmission. In other words, we have a huge apparatus. If we add to that what we are talking about artificial intelligence, data centers will be needed, requiring a lot of electrical energy. That is why, suddenly we see that Amazon is going to invest 6,000 million here, I don’t know how much elsewhere, then we can make a significant investment.
Furthermore, if we get involved, we will not only be able to rescue people who are in poverty, or fight poverty. It is a matter of social justice and ethics, there is no doubt, but it is also a matter of improving the country's economy. So, people who are marginalized can prepare themselves, can be trained, can have employment, have food, strengthen the market.
The president also says, “Greater access, more science and technology, well-paid jobs in all areas.” I believe that we have a very good national environment; and, if we add the geographic issue, that we are neighbors of the United States, and that this country is going through an important, delicate, problematic situation; that it will have to make a great effort to correct, And, that is where there is talk of nearshoring and there is talk of more warehouses on the border and that there is more production. And, above all, something that the president says in the Plan, which is the substitution of imports, substitution of imports in Mexico and substitution of imports in the United States.
We have a very favorable trade balance with the United States here. US$238,000 M more than US$240 M of exports minus imports. But we have a large debt with China, a large debt with Taiwan, with Japan, with Germany. So, what we have to do is, hopefully we can, increase our exports with the United States, have more activity. Above all, the United States has to stop importing so much, what it imports from China, it has to reduce its imports from China. And, Mexico is an alternative to replace it, and here it is already manifesting itself. So, we have to increase our business with China and reduce our imports. How? By replacing them! There when we see the relationship, that's where I'm going with it, of everything that Mexico imports, we have to reduce those imports in some cases.
About gas. We import a lot of gas, I think we import about 80% of consumption, we import it from the United States. We are importing oil and petrochemical and oil products. So, that has to be produced. And that is the substitution of imports. If we can achieve the investment that I was pointing out, the substitution of imports from Mexico, so that it imports less; more exports, more trade with the United States and integrate people into the economy, into employment, into training. They should have reasonable homes, they won't have a big house, but they should have a better home for people. Look, one of the things that we have been seeing for many years, how many years have we been dealing with the home pollution, Roberto?
Roberto Tapia Conyer: About 15 years.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Here we had the plan to install in homes where they cook with firewood and the whole family is contaminated, because everything stays there, chimneys that come out of the house and the contaminants vent. I say we have to include again in the program. When we got to do it, do you remember the IMECAS? When they are cooking inside. The pollutants or whatever they are called, are multiplied by 10 or 15 depending on the contamination of the firewood and what is there. So, the important thing that we are proposing is the part of the work of the Foundations. The foundations are very well structured, very well capitalized; but we are willing to go beyond what they have. The foundations already have resources of more than MX$100,000 M. So, those are resources that we have for now for all the effort that is going to be made in the area of health, education, training, poverty, food, etc. And we are going to try to focus them very quickly, intensely on this work. That is this part of the foundations.
On the other hand, if I am telling you about investment, it is because the Group has every intention of being an investor. Just as we teach you many activities of the companies that make up the Group, there is the potential for production in those same companies. If you like, we can move on to questions.
Arturo Elías Ayub: When you say 25%, I don’t know if everyone knows that you are referring to the GDP.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: When we talk about how much is going to be invested, I tell you 25 to 28%, which is what has been indicated in the Plan, when I say 25%, it is 25% of the GDP. If that internal product were worth 100, we would be talking about an investment of 25.
Yareth Arciniega of Social Economy: You just mentioned that fighting poverty is a matter of ethics and improving the country's economy.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: And it is also ethical, it is about social justice.
Yareth Arciniega, That’s right.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: But at the same time, unlike the agricultural society, in the agricultural city, human beings were exploited. They were slaves, there was no social mobility, it was better for them to work hard and consume little. Now, the new civilization, from the industrial one, but with more reason now, it is better for them to be prepared, to understand, to work, and to have time to be part of the internal market, to consume such and such things. That is what makes them strong. Why is the United States so strong? Because of the level of consumers there are.
Yareth Arciniegas: Of course, in this regard, you also mentioned in one part, the closeness with Bill Gates. Ask you, Mr. Slim, you are the richest man in Latin America and one of the wealthiest in the world, and Bill Gates and the businessman Warren Buffett have an initiative for billionaires to donate at least 50% of their fortunes. Because they think that the accumulated fortunes should be redistributed to open opportunities. Ask you, Engineer, are you going to join that effort?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No
Yareth Arciniegas: What will you do with your fortune, Sir?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, no! Look, I'm not going to take anything with me when I die. Businessmen are creators and managers of wealth, temporary wealth managers. I'm not going to take anything with me, I don't even know where I'm going to be buried, imagine! They just don't manage it well! I've already criticized them. Those who are going to donate 50%, what they have to donate is their work, their dedication to solving society's problems, not making donations. Can you imagine, do you know the United States budget? You don't know it, but I don't either. But it's huge. Do you know what those donations are for? They have no say. Even if they're US$200,000 M. They have no say in the budget. What they should do, Bill Gates is already doing, he's already doing it by dedicating himself to promoting the Foundation, and so on. But they spend a lot on the Foundation, if I give you 100 pesos, you are going to spend 80 on the Foundation".
There is a Foundation that taught me that, it is called the Gulbenkian Foundation, a Mr. Gulbenkian donated it in Portugal and it turns out that 70% of the Foundation’s annual budget goes to salaries.
What you have to do is resolve it and turn yourself in, right? What the Foundation has done... it is almost starting and it has done a lot, but there is still a lot to do. I don't know if I am explaining myself.
Yareth Arciniega: Of course.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Do you think I was going to donate to Bill Gates and to Warren, who is a great guy? Warren's son is already doing it. He is probably 94, I don't know how old he is. Howard's son has already changed his mind, because he said he was going to give them 1% and I don't know what other nonsense. They are already working. The joke is that they work, not that they just give a donation and that's it (bring Gibran's book, please).
Yareth Arciniega: And I also wanted to ask you, you were talking about the education sector, that one of the strata, one of the sectors that young people have focused on the most, is technology, intelligence, to solve that part of artificial intelligence. Are you thinking about or are you going to invest in semiconductors?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Well, if semiconductors fall on us, that's where we'll get into it. Look, that technological part, I still don't understand it well. I do know, for example, that in 1900... do you know what the technological change was from the industrial society to the current one? Although they call it the Fourth Revolution, it's a change from an industrial society. Do you know what the change was? That Bell Labs, from ATT discovered the transistor in 1947. It was one hundredth of the bulb and they left it in the 50’s, and then in the 60’s. And, I think that in the 80’s was when it really took off. Right now, it is invisible, that’s the magic. Taiwan is very good at doing it. In Korea, Samsung is good. It's not our field, but I know that there is an idea of doing it.
Yareth Arciniega: Does the president want to do it, to have the transmitters produced?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Yes, I think that what is right about what they want to do is to develop science and technology more. I will tell you what China did. China in 1976 or 1978 decided on four things: modernize agriculture; modernize industry; modernize the military and modernize science and technology. If you want to see it, it is by Deng Xiaoping, in a book called… which I recommend, it has many chapters, it is called From Silk to Silicone. And there are these points, and look where China is.
Mathieu Tourliere from Proceso magazine: Good afternoon, Engineer, You mentioned a tax reform, your reserves regarding tax reforms.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, I criticized the tax reform.
Mathieu Tourliere: On VAT and ISR. What is being proposed in a sector of society is to impose a tax on large fortunes, on inheritances, precisely, which also applies to capital movements... What do you think about this?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Look, if it is done by inheritance, in one generation, Mexican companies are American. Because, let's suppose that you have a fortune, that you leave it to six children, to pay they have to sell shares. I don't know if I explain myself. And in the second or first generation the company no longer has a head, and most likely it will be acquired. I think that the important thing is that it is understood that the company. I hope they read Mujica from Uruguay. It is very important that there are entrepreneurs, that there is capital, in any country. When they talk about equality, well they are saying something stupid, because, what is equality like? Like in Haiti, for example, where everyone is equal? This is what Mrs. Merkel said.
Arturo Elías Ayub: Thatcher, Thatcher, right?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I was wrong again! Thatcher, and perhaps Merkel, also said that.
Arturo Elías Ayub: Sure.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Mrs. Thatcher of England, when she was criticized, “Listen, there is more inequality in such and such,” she said, “Yes, there used to be equality here; now, there is inequality here, and she did it with her hands. And, now there is inequality here and she put her hands up. Do you understand me? But there is more inequality like this, not equality like this. Business is very important. How did China develop? Well, it freed the business community. And there is Alibaba and the other company, and the other company, and there are lots of very bright, very capable Chinese businessmen.
What are the United States doing, curiously enough? It is recruiting businessmen and executives from India. And now you see that the big American companies are bringing there I don't know how many good, good, good Indians there are. Now, then, regarding inequality, equality, it is very important that there is a minimum level of well-being. Excuse me, what is your name?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Mathieu? There needs to be a minimum level of well-being. It's no use having equality here. Do you understand? Or for them to say, "equality has improved, we're here." But you have people at the bottom, who are in extreme poverty, right? So, you can't have your inequality improve when you have people in extreme poverty. What you have to have is a minimum level of well-being. Mexico must have it, and any country. That people, at least have a minimum level of well-being, and that minimum level of well-being is ascending; and that obviously includes health, education, food and housing.
Mathieu Tourliere: A higher tax on large fortunes, for example.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Well, let's see, suppose you put a tax on large fortunes. What will he do? He will take it elsewhere to invest, right? He will be discouraged from investing. No, what we need is for the businessman to be held back, and to be held back so that he does not have economic insecurity, legal insecurity, the businessman and the foreign investor, eh? Do you understand me? Now, if a foreign investor perceives that his capital is somehow endangered, I don't know how much, he will not come.
Mathieu, am I clear? Look, let’s suppose that tomorrow you say 10% to all those who have more than one million Pesos. What will happen? A lot of capital will leave or they will not invest. No, the thing is that the capital that exists will be invested and jobs will be created and economic activity will be generated and it will grow. Let’s see, I’m going to give you some data, if I found the paper… well, here it is. If we grow here in various ways, we will see that the population will grow by half a percent. If in 24 years or in four six-year terms we grow, for example, by 5% annually, do you know what the average income will be? US$36,000, or three times what it is today, in 24 years if you grow at five, if you grow at one and a half, US$14,000, that is, you are going to spend another 24 years of sadness.
Now, if you grow at three percent, which is not much, then you are at US$23,000. What we have to do is invest and grow, and raise the level of wages, income, and the incorporation of more people into the workforce. Who was worried that Mexicans were going to come back from there? Someone said it somewhere, right? Well, now, if you grow at six, which is not very viable, you will have to be half Chinese … it is US$40,000 or US$45,000 per capita, in 24 years. Now, I think that growing at three or four is quite easy.
Mathieu Tourliere: The second question. In the end, well, especially since the second half of Andrés Manuel López Obrador's six-year term, you were seen going to the National Palace quite often, and you were given a bit of an advisory role. I wonder if he intends to take on this role with President Sheinbaum as well. Because it was seen in the last six-year term that he participated in several of López Obrador's megaprojects. So, see what interest do you have in this administration? What projects attract your attention?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: We have been an investment group. And now, in addition to a large investment, we are proposing to make it much larger.
Mathieu Tourliere: You participated in the Maya Train.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, I'm talking about health right now. In our plan, you asked me, what was the plan, to make health activities very important, sorry, of the Foundation, health, food, and investment.
Now, with President López Obrador, I was introduced to him by a mutual friend, who now doesn’t like each other very much, but a mutual friend, who is Héctor Aguilar Camín. Also, I think Héctor Aguilar Camín is admirable and they should get along better. He was the elected Head of Government of Mexico City, he hadn’t taken office yet. And he told me that he wanted to promote the Avenida Reforma and why I didn’t invest in Reforma. I told him, “I’ll go into the Historic Center, I’ll go into the Historic Center, I’ve been discussing that for many years. And, if the president agrees.” Fortunately, he said yes; fortunately the president agreed.
And, the truth is that everyone supported the Historic Center. In three years, the Historic Center had already changed. We brought the call centers there. Many things were done, and now you see how it is, you go through Madero and the Historic Center has been transformed. People go there now, before they didn’t go, there was no security and there was nothing like that. So, later we had some difficulties, small disagreements. The first one was very mild, then he invited me, for example, to be a Patron Member, because I had a good friendship with Monsiváis. He invited me to the Carlos Monsiváis Museum.
So, what would I say to you? You told me… I made two trips with him, and they were very interesting. One to the Interoceanic, which I think is one of the most important projects that is still there, stumbling a little. The Interoceanic is the train that, in 1907, was inaugurated by Porfirio Díaz, imagine! in 1907. Now, what is needed for that Interoceanic is that it be cut a little more, that it be made more efficient and faster. That is very important, we are also working there in some poles or in the ports. And I talked, he didn’t pay attention to many things, but on others I convinced him, more less.
Mathieu Tourliere: But do you intend to play that role also with President Sheinbaum of visiting the National Palace frequently?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Well, it’s not that often, it’s not that often, it seems that it’s often.
Mathieu Tourliere: But with López Obrador there were more and more of them.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Look, he governed for almost six years and I went less than once per semester, I think less.
Journalist: Good afternoon, Engineer. I would like to ask you a very sentimental question. In recent years, several iconic Sanborns in Mexico City have closed.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Do you know how many?
Journalist: like the one in San Angel
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: They wanted to double our rent. What else?
Journalist: Even the one from El Angel, which was also part of history.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: There is no parking area and they wanted to double our rent and now there is Casa Boker, which is there, there are three Sanborns there, so there are many together.
Journalist: So, what I want to know is how you felt about having to close and if there is any measure to prevent the same thing from happening to the most iconic Sanborns, which is the one with the tiles.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: It is already closed.
Arturo Elías Ayub: Just kidding.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Why don’t you say that when we opened there were 30 Sanborns and now there are 140? How do you see that? So, there were 30. It was a matter of rent. We closed the Sanborns in La Fragua, it was a shame, it was one of the first and that’s where the Tamayo murals that are in the museum today were placed, which was a friend of the family, of the Sanborns brothers. The truth is that there were 30 Sanborns but now there are 140. Which ones have we closed? The one in La Fragua was closed, it was a shame. The one in San Ángel was a shame although there was no parking area, it was complicated and they wanted to double the rent. Which other one? The one in Centro Banamex was forced, because it didn’t have much customers and we closed around ten, I think, or 14 or 12. The Sanborns is on Isabel la Católica, in Casa Boker, and the bad thing there, the sad thing is that Casa Boker closed, because it was a beautiful place, they had a hardware store.
Gabriela Frías from CNN: Mr. Slim, good afternoon. I have the number 25 in my head, but I think that the 25 that many of us have in mind is the 25% tariff that Donald Trump wants to apply. We are waiting for him to sign the decree for what concerns steel and aluminum, but of course there is time - 25, 26 days - to reconsider whether Mexico and Canada will also impose that tariff on their products. Don’t you think that is a factor of uncertainty to convince people to invest? And you were talking about a powerful investment of 25%? But I would like to ask you, do you think there is uncertainty in Mexico? Do you think that the uncertainty over the reform to the Judicial Power, among others, is not also a factor to stop or reconsider investments among businessmen? Thank you.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Well, no, I don't think so. It's absurd that it was done, but, well, it's just flying around. It wasn't relevant. Adjustments could have been made. Remember that they were looking for President Minister Saldívar to stay there to make adjustments. It would have been better to go that way than the other. What I'm saying is that it's complicated, expensive, improper, but it's already underway. What the president had said first was that he wanted to do it with President Minister Saldívar of the Supreme Court, to make the corrections that occurred. I think it's a mistake that when something is wrong, one erases everything and has to do everything again. When something is wrong, it is corrected and that's it.
About the I think that the situation in the United States is affecting President Trump. I think there is a lot to do, he only has four years. The situation in the United States is not good. I am going to refer a little to the technocrats and Nobel Prize winners. The United States stopped producing things. It took them all abroad because it was cheaper there, that was the recommendation and, suddenly, the conflict came, when President Biden said that he declared war on them in March 21, do you remember that, right? So, then the Chinese began to take measures, they were already preparing and suddenly, they stopped supplying semiconductors. The Americans ran out, they said, “No, I have to produce semiconductors in the United States.” And now they want to take Taiwan to Arizona. They allocated US$50 B in support. There they realized that almost no country can be left without something that is essential for them, that is semiconductors.
But on the other hand, they have to import a lot of things from China. There are some things that have no solution, so what is needed is a friendly economic and technological competition. China has rare earths. China has prepared itself; it has almost half of the production of steel, paper, this, that, that. It has enormous production capacities, and that comes from its 40% annual investment. That is what it continues to invest. These brutal investments are enormous and there, although a middle class of 800 M people has been formed, it gives the impression that it is a middle class that does not spend, but rather saves, continues to save. Maybe it is afraid that companies will close or something, but it does not seem that there is still a very large internal consumption. There is still important investment. So the United States has to look for what things it can protect, what things it can produce and what things it cannot produce. When the solutions are tariffs, they don't work, inflation rises and that brings with it what I was saying a while ago, interest rates, the interest rate no longer goes down.
I think that what he is proposing is to lower interest rates. But those tariffs, I think that they do not solve the problems. But, President Trump, I think that he is already acting on the most complicated things that he has to do. And the first is that he has a lot of consumption and a lot of spending. They have already started with USAID. I think that it would be interesting for him to do a kind of double play, let's say, that on the one hand he reduces many expenses on certain things and on the other hand he directs them towards investment. For example, I think that almost all of us have the idea that health care in the United States is very expensive, that it is very expensive, MediCare and for those who have and those who do not have and insurance. And I think that it is one of the most expensive in the world. When you see in Europe, in Spain, that it is very cheap, well, it is surprising that it is so high there.
If he worked on that like USAID and things like that, then those resources that are going to spending, to consumption, could be channeled into investment. I insisted a lot about investments, it doesn't invest, well, it invests... I told you it was 20%, right? I mean, the United States' investment of 20%. Here I have one of 16.8 in 2010, well, it can't go against China's 40 and 50. And what the United States wants is for China not to take away its economic, hierarchical leadership, in many senses.
And to achieve that, it's not going to be with tariffs. It's going to be by spending less, having fewer costs and fewer expenses; channeling those resources into investment. And I think that when President Trump says that he's going to lower taxes for companies so that they go to the United States, well, they're not going to go. Just because they lower them from 21 to 19 isn't going to make them go! So, what he has to talk to companies about, in my opinion, so that they take into account that their country is the United States, and that many things that they do abroad, they come to the United States to do them. Because there are many things and investments by large American companies that they do abroad. For example, Amazon said that it was going to invest US$50,000 M or US$100,000 M abroad.
I think the first thing is to invest in the United States and invest in Mexico. Because nearshoring is already happening. I think the cost of labor in China is around nine dollars, here it is around 4.50 or 4 manufacturing dollars per hour. So it is no longer the China of 2003, when the cost of labor was 60 cents and here it was 2.50.
So, I think that for Mexico it is a great opportunity and for the United States. Summing up, I say that the United States needs to reduce costs and expenses. Look, for example, I think that the military retires at 20 years, maybe one day I found out, don’t you check it out? It is very illogical that they retire at 20, they are worse off than Telmex. Well, all these expenses for pensions and retirements are what has Europe and the United States bankrupt, because the cost is so much that they never include the labor liabilities in their figures.
So, well, I think it is about lowering costs, increasing investments. Now, to increase investments, they have all the money in the world; because, all they have to do is whistle and the Europeans will go and invest there. I think that the investment from the United States, which is at 20% 21.9 or 22, should be higher than that of Mexico, which is 25 or 28%. They should spend less, invest more, ask for it to be resolved, that they send them more money, etc. I once heard that they have many military bases, more than… I don’t know the number, but they talked about 700 or more, right? Well, they should reduce expenses and costs, as much as possible, carefully. Because, I think that this friend is going too far, closing down the Twitter staff by 80%, just like he is doing elsewhere.
Unidentified journalist Do you know Elon Musk?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I don’t know him.
Gabriela Frías: Do you think what you did with USAID was a mistake and, by the way, do you want to know about it?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Oh, no, I don't know, I don't care! I think he made some very good decisions; I think the best one was moving from South Africa to the United States. Because he was able to do a lot of things there and with the support of the State. Do you know him or does anyone know him so that you can ask him for a bet?
Gabriela Frías: I thought you were going to meet him when he was in Washington,
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I saw him running to dinner. Are you going to tell him about a bet or what? Yeah? Oh, come on! Tell him, “He says that by the year 28 they will reach Mars and return. That people will arrive and return in 2028.” Tell him to bet that it is not true...
Gabriela Frías: When? When then is it not true?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I'll bet you a dollar! But let the dollar say, "I was wrong, you were right." And I'll bet you that if they arrive on the 28th, and by the 30th, I'll give you two dollars.
Gabriela Frías: To close, and forgive me, pals. And what about Mexico? We were talking about investing in Mexico. So, how are we going to ensure that all this much-needed investment reaches our country?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Look, there's something that I haven't seen in a long time. The president is meeting with businessmen; she's already met with those from Canada, she's already met with those from the Mexican Business Council, she's already met with the Business Coordinating Council. She's even met with me! We met three months ago. So, in that meeting we all agree that we have to invest and we all agree on changing Mexico. We all agree that there should be a process of sanitation and security and things like that...and collaboration with the United States. What more do you want?
Gabriela Frías: For it to happen
Unidentified journalist: Do you think that the response given by president Sheinbaum to the US tariffs was correct?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I think it was very good. Besides, she has plan A, B, C, DI think he went through half an alphabet. No, not that much, but yes! She had many alternatives! Well, that's what you have to have, alternatives. I think he did very well. Also, Mexico has a lot of room. Look, do the math with the dollar, remember that we were at 16.50 and now we're at 20 and a half and we're going to reach 21. If he did that, well, the peso would have gone to 22, and if you had gone to 22, the 15 doesn't matter anymore, the tariff doesn't matter anymore. Did I explain myself? Tariff is no longer relevant.
Arturo Elías Ayub: But tell them the reason, because they don’t understand you.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, let them do the math.
Arturo Elías Ayub: And US military retirement is achieved after 20 years of service.
Andrea Sosa, German news agency DPA: I remember that, during Donald Trump's previous government, you said right here that he was the Negotiator and not the Terminator. I would like to ask you if you still think the same in this version 2.0.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I have no doubt. But the sentence is already outdated.
Andrea Sosa: I know, but I ask you
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: It was in 2016
Andrea Sosa: I ask if you see it differently, if he is now threatening with other types of actions.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Let’s see, we already saw that the tariffs are a negotiation, “I take them off, I put them on.” It’s the easiest thing, “I’ll raise them, I’ll lower them.” In some cases, maybe he’ll leave it; but, just imagine, did you realize what happened when he said he was going to put them on? The stock markets fell, the US stock market fell 2%. You know what a stock market fall! I’ll tell you something later. The stock market falls, everyone turns against it, this goes backwards and Congress opposes it! You did realize, right? Well, he’s not going to gain anything! Imagine that everything that happens, that everything that is imported to the United States carries a 25% tax. Inflation is going to explode.
Andrea Sosa: So you still think this is a Donald Trump strategy to negotiate?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I think that what the United States has to do is regain the world leadership that it has had, which is what they want, to regain leadership, because they are already going in that direction. And for that, they have to strengthen their country’s investment, reduce unnecessary expenses, strengthen their country’s investment, and move up economically, so that the other one doesn’t fall behind, because the other one, the other one will catch up in a few years and right now, due to purchasing power, they are already big enough. How is the purchasing power, Gerardo, Camargo? If you look at purchasing power, is China tied with the United States! So, going back to the question, I think that a general tariff will not be imposed. Now, there is the steel industry and the aluminum industry, which are the ones that will be subject to it. The steel industry, do you know that it has plants that are stopped? What it wants is to put the stopped plants back into production. I think.
Andrea Sosa: And finally, have you spoken with Donald Trump about Mexico since he won the last election? The current one?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, I spoke with him in 2016 and in 2020 at the Free Trade Agreement, we were there at the event.
Andrea Sosa: Do you plan to talk to him soon?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, first he should sit down sort things out, and see what he can do. But I am convinced that it cannot be that here growth is of 1%, 1.7, 2.8, 3.8, 2. It cannot be that the United States are not investing. So it has to spend less, it has to invest. I am not saying that it invests the same as China and India, but they are different levels. China still has a long way to go or India has a long way to go.
Look, I'm going to read you how the companies are doing. Look, the United States is 29 trillion. I'm giving you the GDP... China is 18. So, that's why I'm asking you, purchasing power, how is it? Germany is 4.7, India is 3.8. Italy is 2.3. Brazil is 2.1. Korea is 1,800. These are theirs, 29 and 18. 29 trillion, the United States. Now, the GDP per capita of the United States is 86,600 dollars and that of China is 13,000 dollars. But with less purchasing power, because things are cheaper. Germany is the other one that has to get up and wake up. It has 55,000 of GDP, and its average growth in the last five years is .14. Germany has grown 0.94 per year in the last ten years. It can't be! They are asleep in Europe! And the United States has to go out and invest. He is already thinking about bringing some companies that are abroad to the United States, American ones. What matters is that they invest in the United States, for the sake of purchasing power.
María Versa, María Versa, Associated Agency Press: Good afternoon, Engineer, continuing with my colleagues’ questions, you say that you have not spoken now, when you were at the inauguration with President Trump, but I don’t know if you had any meeting with interlocutors from your administration, with businessmen? precisely to bring positions closer together on what Mexico needs. And if the president or someone from Claudia Sheinbaum’s government asked you for some kind of mediation.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, he did not ask me for any kind of intervention. Yes, I was talking to some people there and no, they did not give me any assignment.
María Versa, Associated Agency Press: Along these lines, that is, what were the discussions or what could you tell us a little about, and with what, in what sectors or with what people?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, well, we were just sensing what was going on. For example, at one of the events we were talking to people who were outside, who hadn't come into the dining room. For example, the president of FIFA was there, we talked to him; there was a lady who is in charge of security and things like that, we were talking to several people.
María Versa: Are you trying to form some kind of coalition, team, cooperation with American businessmen who think like you? Is there any way for private initiatives in both countries to collaborate that could help prevent these tariffs from being implemented?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, I think that the general tariffs ... Let’s see, imagine that suddenly everything imported into the United States pays 25%, everything that is imported. And look, that matters a lot. No, no, no, it doesn’t work. Look how the stock market fell, look, the United States stocks are like that, the top ones. Do you know how they are? They are at 39 times their earnings. How do you see it? They are very exaggerated. The prices are at 2 trillion. At 3 trillion. The market prices. And why do you think it became liquid? Warren Buffet.
Maria Versa: And you have said that Mexico has to increase trade with the United States. How can you convince them with this ever-present threat?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: What Threat?
María Versa: Regarding the threat of tariffs, what can Mexico do to increase and convince the United States and in what areas can trade be increased?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Well, I think it has to take care of its expenses and costs, and that is why the president is aware of this and has left the task. He wants to increase investment, I hope so! I suppose he also wants to increase it. It is insufficient for the United States to continue investing 20% of the GDP. Just as it is inadequate for Mexico to continue investing 20%. We have to increase investment. I already said that the one that invests the most in the world, in general, is the private company, it is the one that invests the most. So, what we have to do is encourage private companies to invest. What the United States needs is for many of its companies to be able to leave, continue investing in the United States and for only marginal things to be done abroad.
María Versa, Associated Agency Press: And finally, is your group considering or would like to have any type of collaboration, investment, or participation with any of Elon Musk’s companies?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Heaven forbid! No, they are 150 times the profits. No, we are more careful with the type of investment.
Rocío Jardines W Radio: Two questions. First, when you say tariffs are not directly relevant, are these threats, if Trump follows through, of 25% on steel and aluminum, not going to affect our country, since we are the main commercial partner of the United States?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I think steel and aluminum thing may stay there. It is protecting two sectors that have a lot of capacity in the United States! I was saying that I don't think a 25% tariff will be put on everything. That's what I don't believe. I could be wrong, but I don't believe it, and it would be temporary.
Rocío Jardines: As a businessman in our country, one of the top ones, do you really have confidence that when this month-term of the president with Donald Trump ends, Mexico will really manage to eliminate it permanently? What should you do? And, in terms of security, do businessmen continue to trust in the work that President Sheinbaum is doing with her four-point strategy?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: The president immediately fulfilled her commitment, right? Well, now, what I see as a bit irrational here is that, given this situation of drugs entering the United States, the United States should not put soldiers and whatever else there to stop them from entering. I think there should be double care: from here so that they don't get out and from there so that they don't get in. And if you notice, there are tunnels, that there have been tunnels for trafficking. But, it's very strange that they don't find any tunnels there, they are always found here. So, if you think about the time of alcohol... as I think that almost everyone knows what happened with alcohol, there with Eliot Ness, the mafias and Al Capone, and all that... well, what sounds weird is that there is no one there. Suddenly things arrive and disappear, who knows, as if by magic there are no mafias. There should be protection at customs or passing through customs, preventing drugs from entering. That is, Mexico prevents them from leaving and they prevent them from getting there.
What Mexico is doing is a task that it promised to do, and I think it is doing very well. But it does seem that there needs to be more presence there from security, from the police, from the DEA, from the CIA, from whoever, right? To be watching how it moves, who buys it, where it goes from, how the money is handled. Because, on the other hand, in some way, although it sounds very bad, the drugs and the money stay there, because I think they are worth much more there. And here we are left with the weapons and the violence, right?
Aracely Rivera from El Financiero Bloomberg. Engineer, do you think that the country can move forward, can grow, that the president can work with the constant threats from the president of the United States to Mexico? And a second is, you are saying right now that there must be security in Mexico, on the border, but also in the United States. For Mexico, do you think that the strategy of hugs and not bullets must change to give results to what the United States is asking for? Thank you.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: What I am saying is that the United States should be on the border and keeping watch, because there are a lot of drugs that are everywhere and who knows where they come from, right? I think that they should be careful and attentive. And, above all, if there is something delicate like this, which is very pernicious, then avoid it. I have heard it with the president, who talks about collaboration, that both countries collaborate together on this. What was the other question?
Aracely Rivera: Should the strategy of hugs and not bullets end and be changed and act according to President Trump’s demands?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, I think that President Trump has nothing to do with it. What this government established, clearly, is that there will be no impunity, and that everything will be determined through intelligence. We have already seen it with Operation Swarm, where they closed bars and then hair salons where there were drugs, etc. with intelligence. So, they are acting with intelligence, which does not mean that they are smart, but having the information, and finding out where things are happening. And, they are doing it and the tons they have seized, and I read that they have arrested 10,000 people. Well, what more do you want? They are just starting!
Karina Aguilar from the 24 Horas Newspaper: I would like to ask you about this issue of tariffs on steel and aluminum, if these are imposed. What will be the specific impact on Mexico?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I'm not a fortune teller, I'm not that much of a fortune teller! But, let's see, first I don't know how much steel we sell; and the companies that sell steel here have plants in the United States. These same people have plants there, Tenaris, ICH, they have plants in the United States. So, there's no problem with steel. And aluminum, I don't know how much aluminum we sell.
Karina Aguilar: So, the impact would be marginal?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Yes, I think so. Although, I don't know how many tons the United States buys and how many we sell them. But what I do know is that there are Mexican companies that have plants in the United States. I get the impression that a good part of the tariff may have to do with them producing more steel domestically. And, remember, Japan has wanted to buy US STEEL. So, what they want is to protect these companies in particular.
Santiago Rentería from Reporte Índigo: What expectations do you have about the new administration in this whole framework of trade tensions? You already talked about tariffs, but once this month of truce, so to speak, is over, what do you expect to happen in Claudia Sheinbaum's government? And the second question is if you could go into more detail about what you would be interested in investing in within the framework of the Plan México. Where could you invest in infrastructure?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: First of all, they agreed on certain conditions and I don't see the president changing his mind after 30 days. The Mexican president is fulfilling the offer; she is fulfilling the other side. Well, I don't see why they should worry so much about the 30 days, because what is going to happen? I think they are already fulfilling the agreement they had by phone, right?
And on the other hand, here is the investment that we will make in the companies that we already have, okay? Well, and in those companies that we already have, there will be things that correspond to a Plan, a joint venture contract. For example, if we already have a concession, maybe the agreement is to extend it, did you explain that to me? Well, then it would be road expansions, new roads. We're involved in many things in construction.
We have two projects for eight years now, or I don't know how many, in geothermal energy. And, we have to see how the conditions and the rules and the laws come together, to be able to participate in some projects. We have some Danish partners, who are going to make green hydrogen in Oaxaca. I only saw that on the trip I made on the Interoceanic Railroad. They are going to invest large amounts of money for green hydrogen. And, they told me that they had been traveling around there, and that there was very good wind and very good sun for energy generation. Price of photovoltaic panels have significantly reduced, so power generation is going to become more attractive.
Unidentified journalist: Natural gas, Engineer?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Regarding Lakash, I already told you that at one point Pemex had already installed a pipeline, but we don’t know if it works or not, so they are studying its conditions.
Unidentified journalist: You had said that 1,200 were going to be invested in Lakash.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: There may be 1,200. The exploration has already been done. Now, what needs to be done is to see how it can be exploited. And, to exploit it, you have to have – at 900 meters depth – installations, the pipeline, etc. And, you have to take it 65 km by sea, to get the gas on land. So, the gas has to be there, reach it, have enough pressure to reach that place; and in that place there is an installation that serves two purposes: one, to separate the gas, water and possible oil then, maybe, even for the type of gases and then from there transport and sell it.
Unidentified journalist: We stopped importing gas.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: No, we import 90%, I have received figures of 95 and 70 %, let ‘s see, ask the Chilaquil there. How much?
Chilaquil: 71%
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Well, that is the official figure. But it is between 90 and 85. A lot of gas is imported. Now, there is a lot of gas waste, it is a shame that there is so much gas waste, because you have seen what is being burned in the sea. There is already an attitude of recovering gas again. And, it is very important that the gas is recovered.
Arturo Solís from Bloomberg Online: Good afternoon, engineer. I would like to ask you here, going into more detail on the subject of energy projects, if you have investment plans, beyond Lakash, in other areas and if they will be service contracts or if you are also interested in participating in exploration and production and sharing the risk with Pemex.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Look, we have been buying two yards for about 20 years. We build platforms for the sea, and we built a jack-up. The platforms are permanent and you can take them from shallow to very deep, up to 180 m deep. We are looking at a 180 meters platform with legs, which is a huge amount. And we also drill on land and we have a jack-up that drills at sea. We had half-abandoned a block that we won when bids were held, but we already have an oil operation at sea. There is this gas prospect and there is another one that is also a prospect but it is already committed, some paperwork is missing. This is to extract oil at great depth, well at depth, but it is about 180 meters, has legs. 180 meters of sea, the other is at 900 but this one is 180 meters. What happens is that you put a platform on it, there are eight legs of 180 meters that you tie down below because these are there, no matter what happens, so that they don’t move.
So, that is under analysis. There were five of us partners. It was a German company, an American company and an English company. The English company has already merged with the German one, so there are three of us left and Pemex. So, that is already planned to go ahead and we would have to finance Pemex.
Arturo Solís: Are you referring to Talos, in the Zama project?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: It is Zama, because Talos is the American company. But we already bought the majority of the Mexican company from them. That is already our company. We already have very trained people on land. We are very fast there, we have good equipment for exploitation on land. And at sea, we have a semi-submersible ready and another one that needs repair. But maybe we don’t repair it because everything is very expensive, it is a very expensive industry in everything. And here, what we are thinking is that on the large platform that we are going to make, instead of making… what is it called, Chilaquil?, the one in the middle, for drilling? The drill, instead of buying one that costs 200 or 300 million, install the one we have there.
Arturo Solís: I would also like to ask you if there are alternatives for Claro regarding the transmission of Olympic Games content in Mexico, since Televisa-Univisión has the rights for Mexico, and if Claro will keep the rights to broadcast content for other Latin American countries?
Arturo Elías Ayub: Yes, Televisa bought what they call the complete rights package and we are talking with them so that they can broadcast what they do on television and we can do the online part.
Arturo Solís: And finally, I would like to know if you plan to continue with the closures of Sanborns and the launch of the commercial part now with Dax, and how many units are you aiming for?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: There was a lot of fuss about the closure, that we had already closed all the Sanborns, and that we were going to get out of Sanborns. Pure nonsense that was made into a big deal. But, on the contrary, the idea will be to open more Sanborns. So, we already explained that to them. We have never been to the United States, we thought about it at some point… we never went to the United States. But, in Mexico, how many Sanborns are there, Chilaquil?... There are about 140 Sanborns and 15 or 14 Sanborns Café. Any question?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I would like to ask you, a few moments ago you talked about the Judicial Reform and the elections that we are going to have. However, do you think that judicial independence could be at risk, considering that there are candidates who are close to Morena? And what would this imply in terms of investment and economic growth for the country?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I think that what we have lacked in Mexico is separation of powers, so hopefully one day it will happen.
Alexis Ortiz: A year ago, I remember that at this conference you celebrated the independence of the Judicial Power, but this year you think that could change as a result of all these reforms.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: For example, when there is an election, normally the Executive goes together with the Legislative. So, there is no longer a separation between the Legislative and Executive Powers, normally, right? It happened with Zedillo, who did have a majority in the midterm, and then, when there are very serious matters, when there are serious matters, I don't know how well the Judicial Power works.
The only thing I can tell you, with sadness, is that the Constitution establishes that the one who had to give and decide the prices and conditions of telecommunications was the IFT. And the IFETEL had already sent the list of the official interconnection charge, which it had determined was; furthermore, differentiated. So, it was already in the law, everything was already there. And, suddenly, they introduced a law, the Executive, saying that it would have to be zero. And it took two and a half years in the Supreme Court, and once it was resolved, they said yes, because there was a capricious minister there. He said yes, but that it did not take effect until January of the following year. And that it was not retroactive, nor valid from August to December.
Alexis Ortiz: Finally, engineer, when you were talking about the foundations, you also mentioned that social programs have not managed to end poverty. What do you think has happened with this issue of social programs, because it seems that this will be another six-year term in which they will also bet on this?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Now it is mandatory. So, it is no longer a bet. Look, there is a problem. The population in poverty is in very extended rural areas. So, it is not easy to reach all the extended rural areas. That is going to be one of the problems; that is why Arturo spoke of 8 million. When Arturo was talking about the bicycles, which took an hour and a half to get there, it is an example of how they arrived by bicycle; because they live far away, they are in a situation of poverty. And I think social programs already are in the Constitution, I think that they cannot be removed, that it is very good. The scholarships for young people, the fact that the minimum wage does not rise less than inflation, etc. Social dispersion, in rural areas, is very difficult to cover in a comprehensive way.
Hugo González, tecnoempresa.mx and El Universal: Two clarifications on the Lakash case: is the contract being requested or renegotiated? Because it was not supposed to be renegotiated.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Alejandro isn’t here, right? We reviewed it, but I can tell you that what is being reviewed is the project for the pipes that are being installed by Pemex. I believe that the dialogue is with Pemex and there is another delicate matter. Do you know that Pemex is not paying? So, there is a problem with one of those who usually installs this type of equipment, so I don’t know if this is also happening.
Hugo González: So, for Telmex and Telcel's infrastructure investments, are you going to remove the penalty and invest again as you were investing years ago?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: So, are they going to lift our punishment?
Hugo González: No, to us...
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: The punishment is given to us...
Hugo González: Well, are you going to invest in infrastructure again?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: We are investing! In fact, the year before last we installed 3.5 M fiber lines. Right now, we are already at full speed. Are you subscribed yet? Yes! Well, thank you! And what are you missing? No, but what speed do you have? No, no, we are increasing the speed and we are not raising the price, we were the only ones who did not raise the price. And, we are doing a campaign that is costing us work, but there it is, with Netflix, to have the Netflix service free for six months. We are already there absorbing it ourselves.
Mara Echeverría from Grupo Expansión: How are you seeing the consumption right now? I ask you this because, in general, Grupo Sanborns closed a little flat in terms of revenues and fell in net profit and EBITDA. What are your projections for the Group this year and also how are the reorganization of stores, Sanborns closures, Dax openings, etc. going?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I believe it, and look, I haven’t talked about it much, but yes, obviously I have spoken with the Secretary of the Treasury and he is very careful because there was a large fiscal deficit coming and then there were also threats. I believe that the Secretary of the Treasury has been very careful and the president too, that is why she talks about 2026 because in 2024 there was a large fiscal deficit. It is estimated that it is 6 or 6 and a half percent of the fiscal deficit. So, a very austere attitude was taken in the months that the president has governed, October, November and December. How was it negative there, Gerardo? Spending is being reduced, they are tightening their belts. If you remember, the Treasury issued US$8.6 B, but no one has known what they have used it for, so I believe that the government is saving a lot to face anything that comes. And if there is a drop in consumption, but I think it has been going on for about 6 months, I don’t know how many months it has been going on.
Arturo Elías Ayub: Lakash ‘s contract is not being renegotiated.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: They're already telling me that nothing is being renegotiated in the contract, it's the project. (And there are 140 Sanborns and 17 Sanborns Cafés), There are 140 Sanborns, I guess, and 17 Sanborns Cafés. In other words, there are 110 more than when we came in.
Cristopher Calderón from El Financiero: Do you have details of how much América Móvil is going to invest this year? You were already saying that last year there were 3.5 M. So, let's see if you already have details of how much you are going to invest and what this investment would be for. Because you were also deploying 5G, so let's see a little bit about the details.
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Look, it’s difficult to know the investment, because a good part of the investment is linked to the sale. I don’t know if I’m explaining myself. So, depending on how the sale goes, what Telmex’s investment could be, depends on it. Now, it could be a little less than last year because in Dollars they are already more. Yes, let me explain. The Dollar at 21 is different from the Dollar at 17.
Cristopher Calderón from El Financiero: Ok, so would investment increase, as compared to the previous year?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: In Pesos or in Dollars?
Cristopher Calderon: Dollars...
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: I think it’s going up in Dollars, but it’s going down in Pesos...
Cristopher Calderón: I also want to know about the contracts with Elon Musk’s Starlink for the Internet. Satellite Internet. How have the contracts progressed, let’s say?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: Backwards, no, no, because look, it is better to lay our towers and the plants and the optical fiber that connects them, etc.
Cristopher Calderón: Would he be interested in investing in this satellite that Claudia Sheinbaum wants to launch?
Engr. Carlos Slim Helú: What for? No, no, look, we already have some satellites. When we acquired a company from Brazil, a satellite was included, the Star One. We have already launched satellites and we have eight. If we have them, why do we want to get involved in another one, part of which has to be given to the government, for the military to use it, dedicated. No, we already invested in that.
I’ll read you a page from Gibran on gifts. Who knows how to read well?
Arturo Elías Ayub: The Chilaquil
“Then, said a rich man, Speak to us of Giving.
And he answered: You give but little when you give of your possessions. It is when you give of yourself that you truly give.
For what are your possessions but things you keep and guard for fear you may need them tomorrow? And tomorrow, what shall tomorrow bring to the over-prudent dog burying bones in the trackless sand as he follows the pilgrims to the holy city?
And what is fear of need but need itself? Is not dread of thirst when your well is full, the thirst that is unquenchable?
There are those who give little of the much which they have and they give it for recognition and their hidden desire makes their gifts unwholesome.
And there are those who have little and give it all. These are the believers in life and the bounty of life, and their coffer is never empty.
There are those who give with joy, and that joy is their reward. And there are those who give with pain, and that pain is their baptism.
And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space.
Through the hands of such as these God speaks, and from behind their eyes He smiles upon the earth.
It is well to give when asked, but it is better to give unasked, through understanding; And to the open-handed the search for one who shall receive is joy greater than giving.
And is there ought you would withhold? All you have shall someday be given; Therefore, give now, that the season of giving may be yours and not your inheritors.
You often say, ‘I would give, but only to the deserving.’ The trees in your orchard say not so, nor the flocks in your pasture.
They give that they may live, for to withhold is to perish.
Surely, he who is worthy to receive his days and his nights is worthy of all else from you.
And he who has deserved to drink from the ocean of life deserves to fill his cup from your little stream. And what desert greater shall there be, than that which lies in the courage and the confidence, nay the charity, of receiving?
And who are you that men should rend their bosom and unveil their pride, that you may see their worth naked and their pride unabashed?
See first that you yourself deserve to be a giver, and an instrument of giving. For in truth it is life that gives unto life while you, who deem yourself a giver, are but a witness. And you receivers - and you are all receivers - assume no weight of gratitude, lest you lay a yoke upon yourself and upon him who gives. Rather rise together with the giver on his gift as on wings;
For to be overmindful of your debt is to doubt his generosity who has the free-hearted earth for mother, and God for father.
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