Mr. Carlos Slim met distinguished UNAM students, teachers and researchers to talk about diverse Mexico’s problems, Mexico’s insertion in the current world, its institutions, UNAM and the world as well.
The talk came about in UNAM campus. Dr. José Narro Robles, UNAM rector, welcomed Mr. Slim.
México City, June 21, 2010.
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José Narro Robles: Two questions more for that round…
Carlos Slim Helú: Excuse me.
José Narro Robles: I am just carefully recalling that this coordinator is still on command. Mario Andrés de Leo, please; Beatriz Sánchez, next.
Mario Andrés de Leo: Thanks, I would like to thank Mr. Slim’s forbearance in hearing us, Telmex grants for UNAM students, the Mesoamerica Health Project and his support for the arts.
I am an astronomy postgraduate student, so I am very interested in underlying astronomy as a priority. Astronomy has had many uses through history. As you have mentioned, it helped sedentary groups to transit to nomadic society and so on. Whether we want it or not, these monolithic…
Carlos Slim Helú: We should be aware of meteorites…
Mario Andrés de Leo: And eclipses too. Maya priests had absolute power because of astronomy knowledge. Besides, astronomy irradiates knowledge to scientific development, basic science, optics, physical material structure, data transmission, etc. We Mexicans have led astronomy since ancient times. Maya, Olmeca, Mixteca, and Zapoteca societies had ample astronomy knowledge. During XIX and XX centuries, Mexican astronomers did lead the field…
Carlos Slim Helú: Teotihuacans too.
Mario Andrés de Leo: Of course. Practically all of Mexico archeological sites show astronomy evidence. We have had great astronomers: Enrique Erro, Guillermo Haro, Manuel Peimbert, Arcadio Poveda. During the last years, however, our level has come down. Our biggest telescope is about forty years old. Yet, UNAM have one of the best observatories in the Northern hemisphere, San Pedro Mártir, Baja California.
Having a 10 meter diameter telescope is not an economic problem for the Chinese. They even have the technical means to build one. We have obtained money from the U. S. and Korea to build one, yet we are at a half way because Mexico has refused to contribute its share. Besides, the federal government just allots 0.3 percent of GDP to basic science, while the European Union allots 3 percent. The government has promised to allot 1 percent to basic science during several years, yet we haven’t had seen the money.
So, my question is: What do you suggest to encourage basic science by government and private firms? Basic science irradiates to scientific and technological development. In view of your own organizing capabilities in many fields, have you have thought about creating a basic-science foundation?
José Narro Robles: Beatriz, please…
Beatriz Sánchez Basurto: Thanks for giving us that opportunity, Mr. Slim. I am very worried about Mexico and have some suggestions to make.
Mexico’s education is laggard. Many small and medium-size firms have bankrupted, and that worries me much. On the other hand, we have accumulated scientific research not being absorbed by industry. By instance, we have made advances in high-pressure food conservation without discernible interest by firms. Japan and Spain have advanced that technology.
I am the owner of a 75 hectare ranch, which remains bare because of lack of financial capital. In respect to construction, Germans have developed permeable asphalt to drain rain water down into aquifers.
My question is: How to avoid small and medium-size mortality? How our scientific research could be implemented by industries? Thanks.
José Narro Robles: Thanks, we are going to listening Mr. Slim.
Carlos Slim Helú: We should make sure that useful scientific findings be also profitable, competitive, etc. In respect to food-processing technology, you should talk with food-processing firms. If your innovation works, it will have a good chance for be adopted. Chileans are already using nitrogen-conservation technology from New Zealand, I guess.
If the mountain won’t come to you, you must go to the mountain. You should have a public relation man, a good one in selling ideas to the right people. If you have developed avocado-conservation technology, you should meet avocado farmers. They use to lose avocado by the tons. If your innovation works and is profitable, someone will adopt it.
In respect to small and medium-size firms, I have already stated my view. We have to diminish firm mortality by financial capital and avoiding overcapacity.
In respect to German asphalt technology, you should talk with the Engineering Institute. Now, this technology is not adequate for Mexico City because clayish underground layers absorb rain water, so impeding it to drain down into the aquifer. However, it could be apt for other soils. Now, water is not a scarce resource. If just 3 percent of world water is fresh water, as it is said, it would be enough for human consume. Water can be recycled and treated. All we have to do is managing it well.
I apologize in advance about I am going to say: once you have hit a useful finding, you should analyze its off-lab costs. If nobody comes up asking for it, you should go out to meet interested guys since they hardly will read your papers. That is the only useful way you could create links with business.
In respect to astronomy, I like it much. Salvador Mosqueda was my teacher and we had an observatory in preparatory school. We should study the outer space, of course. I think that Big Bang is an anthropocentric theory and that our destructive ability is still limited. Instead, our planet could be destroyed by aerolites. Doctor Sarukhán introduced Arcadio Poveda to me and we both did outline support for Chicxulub aerolite. At that time, Canadian astronomers had a stake in leading the project because they had the money. Their problem was that the aerolite was ours, so we led the investigation at 600 meters deep-down earth. That was about seven or eight years ago.
The long-petitioned telescope will be approved soon, it seems, as rector Narro has told me.
In respect to your interest about a basic-science foundation, our own foundation reach is ample; we don’t need a specialized one. I repeat: let firms and UNAM do things together.
José Narro Robles: Estela Morales, your turn.
Estela Morales: First of all, I thank Mr. Slim for his support to UNAM and our country through many programs. Your exposition has been both interesting and stimulating for us since the telecom business you lead is a global leader. I specially appreciate the point you has made on information technology, knowledge and human capital formation –a university’s concern. You have clearly linked these three points to high-wellbeing standards and sustained development.
The public sector has failed in applying knowledge. Now, your insistence on education as a requisite for economic success is very important.
My question concerns to all of us. How to lead a participative global change? Globalization is a fact; human participation, however, is uneven. There are both active and passive actors. State participation has been inarticulate. Unemployment is a big problem, not only for Mexico. Developed countries have arrived to globalization in a sequential way, step by step, success by success.
Mexico, instead, has taken big leaps by making big holes at the same time. These big holes cannot be filled by assistance policies, whatever their support for the poor. What we need is a state policy, not as a regulatory one, but as coordination among all of the actors. Education and technology should have permanent budget.
I thank your participation.
José Narro Robles: José Luis, please.
José Luis Navarro: Thanks, good afternoon. Mr. Slim has rightly outlined our own context and a course ahead through three axes: economic development through education to attain social common wellbeing, technology and both basic and applied science.
Our country, however, has big differences. The National Music School, to which I proudly belong, zealously preserves ancient music and it also promotes fresh artistic ideas and teaching practices. Some quarters, however, seem to be reluctant to adopt new technologies for teaching and learning.
How do you think, Mr. Slim, we could profit from these technologies, besides learning to use and adopt them in our own university and open fields, without obstructing normal activities. Technologies do not substitute, just accomplish teaching.
José Narro Robles: Thanks. Karina Culebro, please.
Karina Culebro: I thank the opportunity to be here in. Mr. Slim: you have already answered the question I had; I mean how to attain economic development. You have mentioned health, education and economic development seen as foreign trade. You have mentioned China’s paradigm, which we Mexicans could imitate. The Chinese posture goes like this: “If you want sell microphones to me, we invite you to produce them here in and we will buy you”. That is a good idea. I also want to stress the role of commercial firms in taking that way to establish digital culture in Mexico.
José Narro Robles: Mr. Slim, go ahead.
Carlos Slim Helú: Thanks. We have to attain digital culture. I am a digital illiterate, although Blackberry helps me much. I have seen many times the following group scene: when an info-doubt arises, someone gets the answer immediately by using his digital equipment. Having digital equipment is like having an encyclopedia, entertainment and many more resources at hand, and you can distribute information at light speed. And we are just starting on.
Digital education is critical. Globalization is a fact; we should decide how to place our own country on it. Full open trade could be a fact in some future. By now I would not adopt the Chinese model because of huge differences in size. I would look at Brazil, which is doing what we did thirty years ago. Imported mobile phones pay 35 percent tax in Brazil –a cap authorized by World Trade Organization. In the face of such a big tax, I am not able to export mobile phones to Brazil. So, we have decided to produce mobile phones there. The Brazilian model has been successful in this aspect. Many foreign manufacturing firms have plants there. They come to Mexico for other purposes. Perhaps we will have full open trade in some future.
Globalization is too old. Science, thought, music and culture are global since many years ago. The new globalizing trends are finance and trade. Finance is almost wholly global. Trade has considerable room to move on. We should identify strategic areas and choose the relative amounts of foreign and domestic investment to develop them. Some areas could be fully opened; others could be partially opened, etc.
By instance, computer imports are tariff-free, which is good. However, second-hand computer imports are not allowed, which is foolish. Why are we impeded to import 100 dollars computers? Many poor people could get benefited from them, at least to dismantle them and knowing the stuff they are made. Many boys could become techies.
In respect to commercial openness, a case-by-case strategy seems to be promising. Abolishing all of trade barriers in 2013 is nonsense. We also should single out free-trade partners. Free-trade agreements with South America and Central America could be reciprocally gainful. We should also push for free labor mobility according to ability standards, as in Europe. The migratory issue in North America is very complicated.
In respect to using technology in education, I don’t know if you were talking about the school of Music or the university as a whole.
We shouldn’t be afraid of using technology in music. Fear usually comes from ignorance. There was a time when people refused to enter into churches because of fear the vault could fall down over them, by reason of which altars were placed in the outside. Even nowadays many people fear traveling by plane because of fear of crashes. Many people refrain to enter into dark rooms. The least we should do is to know technology and to get informed about how it is used in research and music in other countries. We are not going to invent warm water. Of course, technology is useful to store and use ancient music.
I appreciate your remark about linking academic research and economic production. Human capital formation is becoming a qualitative problem rather than a quantitative one in Mexico. Many people is now demanding 8 percent of GDP for education, a big increasing from the current 4.5 or 5 percent, which is already big, yet education has not improved itself. Quantitative and qualitative dimensions should be matched themselves. We should start by pregnant mother and child nutrition, health and early education. There are many institutions and non-profit foundation in support of education and health.
I strongly assume that employment stands for the instrument to overcome poverty and attain wellbeing. Social programs and gifts only serve as temporary relief. Job creation should be strategically managed to avoid creating non-growth jobs. Rural, small and medium-size firms and construction jobs are needed.
Investment stands for the key for growth. Liquidity is nowadays abundant while interest rates are very competitive, a situation entirely new to me, as I recall. Developed countries interest rates are near to zero, so we could attract a lot of investment. With cheap and abundant money all projects become viable. Ten-year Mexican government bonds interest rate is about 7.30-7.40 percent, so the government is accruing a lot of investment. We could profit from that opportunity to finance all the needed infrastructure, housing, etc., before developed countries crisis becomes worse.
José Narro Robles: We are going to listening Alán Ortiz Cisneros…
Alán Ortiz Cisneros: Good afternoon, fellow professors, distinguished academicians, Mr. Rector, Mr. Slim. As a scholarship student, I thank benefactor Fundación Carso. Without its support, I wouldn’t be here in. And I am also grateful for having met Andrés Bustamante (“Ponchito”).
I want to go back to Mr. Slim’s interesting introductory speech about successive paradigms though history. I doubt that ancient social immobility has really been superseded; I brood if economic status has substituted divine one.
I use to wander if water is either a product or a good. I think we are the object of a social experiment at a global scale. I ruminate about the Palestine-Israel conflict, the Nobel Peace Award for Barack Obama, and many happenings more. We ask where that experiment is going up. Mr. Slim has underlined that we already live in a service society. In my view, we are already living in a consumerist society. I experience that in my own home. I got off internet past week and I felt life-disconnected. I am not criticizing big companies like Telmex, Grupo Carso and others. I just underline their specialty in creating needs. Internet and mobile phone have become new needs.
The point I want to make is that technology is a means, not an end by itself. We have lost the real aims. Mexico’s problems can be summarized in two words: vision and visibility.
Most of Mexicans have visibility, not vision. Projects are not viable because of lack of planning. We students should observe, analyze and criticize, but the important thing is proposing new ideas. I am studying to be a lawyer –unavoidable evil, you know. Where the Mexican State is it? It performs a lot of functions, some essential and some not. Justice, law making and printing money stand for essential functions.
Technology development runs untimely in respect to law. TV signals are not regulated in some Northern states. Dynamic law-making is needed.
Justice is an essential function too. President Calderón’s judicial initiatives are on the right track. Yet the State has become a sheriff protecting many delegated functions to private actors. I agree with Mr. Slim regarding evolution, adaptation and mutation as humankind main features. Yet, mutation seems to be exclusive for private actors. In the social and law levels we only see adaptation, not evolution.
Small and medium-size firms need easier legal terms. Our problem is both excessive and useless legislation. We use to promulgate laws for everything; they, however, remain unfulfilled. We have many useless institutions, like Profeco and CNDH, by instance. In respect to small and medium-size firms, public action limits itself to charging fines. Financing is needed, yet the state is absent.
We have schools and public support for them. Our problem is lack of education. Training has substituted it. Education shouldn’t be privatized. Private education gives training, not education. Even legal education has become a training matter. Students tend to assume that studying law is equal to memorizing codes.
Mr. Slim: What was your motive behind your success as an entrepreneur? What is your advice to us and the “nini” generation?
José Narro Robles: We commit ourselves to keep your answer in secret, Mr. Slim. Doctor Ciro Murayama, please…
Ciro Murayama: Thanks, good afternoon. Mr. Slim’s account about economic evolution is suggesting. We could approach it through work and employment too. Such an approach could be useful in approaching domestic market encouraging, which Mr. Slim has underlined as a priority. Consumption depends upon domestic market…
Carlos Slim Helú: I’d talk about both domestic economy and domestic market since the last one could be provided by imports.
Ciro Murayama: Yes, of course.
Carlos Slim Helú: Domestic economy, I mean…
Ciro Murayama: Domestic economy needs production, of course.
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